everythinggreyhound > Greyhound Racing > Greyhound Discussion
Your Ad Here
Full Version: Racing in Florida
xracers
Everyone in the dog business has been hanging on to the dream for years that slots and table gaming would be coming to all the tracks. The indian casinos have put a huge hurt on some of the tracks- St Pete is suffering from the effects of being close to Seminole Hard Rock Casino. Palm Beach and Miami also have indian casino's close to them.

The governor of FL is in negotations right now with the indians to extend their gaming rights, the indians will be able to offer Las Vegas style gambling at their casinos.

The parimutuels that have the cardrooms have to have the dogs racing to keep their licenses. The indians don't.

The deadline the federal government has given FL to try to negotiate getting some tax money out of the indians is 10/15. It is a compact the state is entering with the indians and if the dogs aren't included, things are not going to be looking good at all for the dogs and the dog business.

This is very, very scary.
xracers
Here is a article in the St Pete Times that explains some of it. We are all watching what happens very closely.

St Pete Times

If the governor doesn't extend the same rights to parimutuels the dogs are going to suffer a huge blow.

The dead line has been extended to 10/15 for negotiating on the compact.

JudiK
You know, the more I see this kind of thing, the more I think that it's all part of the "Welfare" mind set. You have to save me! You owe me! The government has to save me or the innocents will suffer... I worry about the demise of good, old ingenuity. The dog tracks have to take stock of what they have that the slots parlors don't have. What it comes down to is the dogs:
1. They LOVE to run. There is no little man sitting on their backs hitting them with sticks to
make them run.
2. People like dogs, they really like dogs. I don't know anyone who would say that they
took their family to see the slot machines, but the dogs...

There are three things working against dog racing right now:
1. No one under 70 knows how to "play" the dogs. When I buy a program at the track, there
should be a 1 page Greyhound Betting for Dummies page in there and the opposing page
should be a worksheet that any idiot can fill in and know which dogs to bet.
2. We don't want to see injuries, tracks need to be dedicated to making this sport as safe as
possible, they need to maintain the tracks and constantly look for new surfaces and
devices. Greyhound tracks need to look to NASCAR for an example of how to stay on top
of technical improvements to keep the hounds safe - the public doesn't consider these
dogs expendable - when we visit the track, we see 8 Fluffies and Fidos running around and
you (the track) need to move heaven and earth to make sure that they trot back off the
track after the race.
3. The AR groups have made sure that everyone knows or at least "thinks" that they know
all about what happens to racers when they can no longer run. Each track needs to take
responsibility for the dogs that race there and say "Not at my track!" - and they must
mean it! The track should own the adoption kennel, the track should take in the dogs
from the trainers and the track should hand these same dogs over to prequalified
groups. The track should own a bus or hauler with their track name and "Retired Racers
going to their new families" on the side. It never ceases to amaze me that the tracks
trust their reputations to all of these little adoption groups which come and go... they are
putting themselves in jeopardy every day by gambling their "Goodwill" (which BTW is a
real financial asset, which is shown on balance sheets) in the hands of people who often
do not have the track's best interest at heart! Is this any way to run a business?

xracers
emo-oodpost.gif You go girl !!!!
lovemygreys
Good post Judi, but we all know the tracks are never going to spend money to really, truly make things all that much better. I wish with all my heart they would, but I think we all will make it to the moon first.

I only pray that things go the right way and no back street, out in the country tracks take over.
Railbird9
QUOTE (JudiK @ Oct 10 2007, 12:50 PM)
You know, the more I see this kind of thing, the more I think that it's all part of the "Welfare" mind set. You have to save me! You owe me! The government has to save me or the innocents will suffer...

Right, that's exactly what the Indians did. The Indian tribes whined and begged our Government to give them a big handout... Since they were too busy getting drunk to develop anything on their own. Our Government chose to sacrifice the Racing industry.

It could have been the Automobile industry. Give the Indians huge tax breaks and no-cost Federal Loans to open up New Car dealerships right next to existing dealers, and undercut prices. You don't think car dealers would complain "a little" ?? rolleyes.gif

Or how about Retail supermarkets. Allow the Indians to open retail stores right next to existing Safeway, Publix, Albertsons, Kroger, etc. Except those Indians operate TAX FREE and sell a better selection of groceries at lower prices.

NO - our Government chose to sacrifice the Parimutuel industry. Which had been given an exclusive "franchise" for 100 years in this country - to offer legal, honest, regulated, fair games to the public. Games where the House did not care who won! Free Enterprise games where skill could actually make you some money.

Instead - we got State Lottery AKA- "Sucker Bets". First they allowed the lottery to entice all the stupid people with big Jackpots. Then they allowed these Redskins to build casinos with backing from the New Jersey Mafia to install AND manage their games. With NO regulation of their books!!

QUOTE
No one under 70 knows how to "play" the dogs. When I buy a program at the track, there should be a 1 page Greyhound Betting for Dummies page in there and the opposing page should be a worksheet that any idiot can fill in and know which dogs to bet.

I agree. But Parimutuel gambling rewards those individuals who are "smart" just like the Stock Market does. People who are idiots still get a marvelous entertainment attraction, AND the thrill of betting a live event. But racing has done a terrible job of promoting itself and courting the new generation. Dog racing in particular - you can hardly find a book on Amazon, on greyhound handicapping. It's a lost art.

America has been suckered. Politicians see that a high percentage of the public are total idiots; that's how we get a George Bush re-elected and that's why we have a Lottery and Indian Mafia, instead of fair and regulated Parimutuel cash markets.

Get ready to hunker down at a Shelter when "dirty bombs" explode, the food supply disappears, and Martial Law is declared!! laugh.gif
xracers
Another article

Click here
Fast Dog
QUOTE (JudiK @ Oct 10 2007, 12:50 PM)
You know, the more I see this kind of thing, the more I think that it's all part of the "Welfare" mind set.  You have to save me!  You owe me!  The government has to save me or the innocents will suffer...  I worry about the demise of good, old ingenuity.  The dog tracks have to take stock of what they have that the slots parlors don't have.  What it comes down to is the dogs:
    1.  They LOVE to run.  There is no little man sitting on their backs hitting them with sticks to
          make them run.
    2.  People like dogs, they really like dogs.  I don't know anyone who would say that they
          took their family to see the slot machines, but the dogs...

There are three things working against dog racing right now:
    1.  No one under 70 knows how to "play" the dogs.  When I buy a program at the track, there
          should be a 1 page Greyhound Betting for Dummies page in there and the opposing page
          should be a worksheet that any idiot can fill in and know which dogs to bet.
    2.  We don't want to see injuries, tracks need to be dedicated to making this sport as safe as
          possible, they need to maintain the tracks and constantly look for new surfaces and
          devices.  Greyhound tracks need to look to NASCAR for an example of how to stay on top
          of technical improvements to keep the hounds safe - the public doesn't consider these
          dogs expendable - when we visit the track, we see 8 Fluffies and Fidos running around and
          you (the track) need to move heaven and earth to make sure that they trot back off the
          track after the race.
    3.  The AR groups have made sure that everyone knows or at least "thinks" that they know
          all about what happens to racers when they can no longer run.  Each track needs to take
          responsibility for the dogs that race there and say "Not at my track!" - and they must
          mean it!  The track should own the adoption kennel, the track should take in the dogs
          from the trainers and the track should hand these same dogs over to prequalified
          groups.  The track should own a bus or hauler with their track name and "Retired Racers
          going to their new families" on the side.  It never ceases to amaze me that the tracks
          trust their reputations to all of these little adoption groups which come and go... they are
          putting themselves in jeopardy every day by gambling their "Goodwill" (which BTW is a
          real financial asset, which is shown on balance sheets) in the hands of people who often
          do not have the track's best interest at heart! Is this any way to run a business?

Good thread. The 3 best ways I know to kill a business is---
1. Don't advertise.
2. Don't reinvest in the business.
3. Hire incompetent people.
Reading some of the comments through this site this seems to be a common theme of our industry. Quick and easy money is the only thing on their radar screen right now. Slots and casinos are their way to try and make up for their lack of business savy. emo-th_headbangwall.gif
allforgreys
Great points. I wonder why the NGA doesn't have better people involved that have a clue how to run the business? Get those good old boys out.
xracers
When all else fails, try to pay them off. The tracks are really worried if they're coughing up this kind of cash.

Another Article
xracers
QUOTE (Railbird9 @ Oct 11 2007, 01:15 AM)

Right, that's exactly what the Indians did. The Indian tribes whined and begged our Government to give them a big handout... Since they were too busy getting drunk to develop anything on their own. Our Government chose to sacrifice the Racing industry.

It could have been the Automobile industry. Give the Indians huge tax breaks and no-cost Federal Loans to open up New Car dealerships right next to existing dealers, and undercut prices. You don't think car dealers would complain "a little" ??  rolleyes.gif

Or how about Retail supermarkets. Allow the Indians to open retail stores right next to existing Safeway, Publix, Albertsons, Kroger, etc. Except those Indians operate TAX FREE and sell a better selection of groceries at lower prices.

NO - our Government chose to sacrifice the Parimutuel industry. Which had been given an exclusive "franchise" for 100 years in this country - to offer legal, honest, regulated, fair games to the public. Games where the House did not care who won! Free Enterprise games where skill could actually make you some money.

Instead - we got State Lottery AKA- "Sucker Bets". First they allowed the lottery to entice all the stupid people with big Jackpots. Then they allowed these Redskins to build casinos with backing from the New Jersey Mafia to install AND manage their games. With NO regulation of their books!!


Actually it was the dog people that started this. They got the slots in at Miami and got the indians mad enough to go to the federal government. Indian land is not under the rule of Florida, The federal government told the governor that the indians have the right to put in Las Vegas style gaming, so he better try to negotiate somehow, someway, to try to get some tax money out of it.

If the Miami horse and dog people didn't do what they did, the indians never would have gone to the federal government.

The dog people thought they were sitting on a gold mine with the slots in Miami, and they were but someone forgot to make sure to write in the paperwork that a certain percentage of the monies go to the dog people. They run for virtually the same money that they were before the slots came there.

The Miami dog and horse people started it, now all the tracks in Florida might suffer from it.
shell61257
QUOTE (xracers @ Oct 10 2007, 06:11 AM)
Everyone in the dog business has been hanging on to the dream for years that slots and table gaming would be coming to all the tracks. The indian casinos have put a huge hurt on some of the tracks- St Pete is suffering from the effects of being close to Seminole Hard Rock Casino. Palm Beach and Miami also have indian casino's close to them.

The governor of FL is in negotations right now with the indians to extend their gaming rights, the indians will be able to offer Las Vegas style gambling at their casinos.

The parimutuels that have the cardrooms have to have the dogs racing to keep their licenses. The indians don't.

The deadline the federal government has given FL to try to negotiate getting some tax money out of the indians is 10/15. It is a compact the state is entering with the indians and if the dogs aren't included, things are not going to be looking good at all for the dogs and the dog business.

This is very, very scary.

OOOH PLEASE LET US KNOW what happens! Today is the day?!! blink.gif
xracers
I'm sitting right here waiting to here something- today was supposed to be the deadline on the compact.
shell61257
QUOTE (Railbird9 @ Oct 11 2007, 01:15 AM)
QUOTE (JudiK @ Oct 10 2007, 12:50 PM)
You know, the more I see this kind of thing, the more I think that it's all part of the "Welfare" mind set. You have to save me! You owe me! The government has to save me or the innocents will suffer...

Right, that's exactly what the Indians did. The Indian tribes whined and begged our Government to give them a big handout... Since they were too busy getting drunk to develop anything on their own. Our Government chose to sacrifice the Racing industry.

It could have been the Automobile industry. Give the Indians huge tax breaks and no-cost Federal Loans to open up New Car dealerships right next to existing dealers, and undercut prices. You don't think car dealers would complain "a little" ?? rolleyes.gif

Or how about Retail supermarkets. Allow the Indians to open retail stores right next to existing Safeway, Publix, Albertsons, Kroger, etc. Except those Indians operate TAX FREE and sell a better selection of groceries at lower prices.

NO - our Government chose to sacrifice the Parimutuel industry. Which had been given an exclusive "franchise" for 100 years in this country - to offer legal, honest, regulated, fair games to the public. Games where the House did not care who won! Free Enterprise games where skill could actually make you some money.

Instead - we got State Lottery AKA- "Sucker Bets". First they allowed the lottery to entice all the stupid people with big Jackpots. Then they allowed these Redskins to build casinos with backing from the New Jersey Mafia to install AND manage their games. With NO regulation of their books!!

QUOTE
No one under 70 knows how to "play" the dogs. When I buy a program at the track, there should be a 1 page Greyhound Betting for Dummies page in there and the opposing page should be a worksheet that any idiot can fill in and know which dogs to bet.

I agree. But Parimutuel gambling rewards those individuals who are "smart" just like the Stock Market does. People who are idiots still get a marvelous entertainment attraction, AND the thrill of betting a live event. But racing has done a terrible job of promoting itself and courting the new generation. Dog racing in particular - you can hardly find a book on Amazon, on greyhound handicapping. It's a lost art.

America has been suckered. Politicians see that a high percentage of the public are total idiots; that's how we get a George Bush re-elected and that's why we have a Lottery and Indian Mafia, instead of fair and regulated Parimutuel cash markets.

Get ready to hunker down at a Shelter when "dirty bombs" explode, the food supply disappears, and Martial Law is declared!! laugh.gif

Are there still 14 dog tracks operating in Florida? There aren't any Indian run gambling joints in North FL. So I'm guessing these tracks are here to stay?? Some of our tracks don't even have dogs; just dogs via telecast but still have gaming rooms. (Plus the odd gambling ship around here.)
shell61257
QUOTE (shell61257 @ Oct 15 2007, 12:20 PM)
QUOTE (Railbird9 @ Oct 11 2007, 01:15 AM)
QUOTE (JudiK @ Oct 10 2007, 12:50 PM)
You know, the more I see this kind of thing, the more I think that it's all part of the "Welfare" mind set. You have to save me! You owe me! The government has to save me or the innocents will suffer...

Right, that's exactly what the Indians did. The Indian tribes whined and begged our Government to give them a big handout... Since they were too busy getting drunk to develop anything on their own. Our Government chose to sacrifice the Racing industry.

It could have been the Automobile industry. Give the Indians huge tax breaks and no-cost Federal Loans to open up New Car dealerships right next to existing dealers, and undercut prices. You don't think car dealers would complain "a little" ?? rolleyes.gif

Or how about Retail supermarkets. Allow the Indians to open retail stores right next to existing Safeway, Publix, Albertsons, Kroger, etc. Except those Indians operate TAX FREE and sell a better selection of groceries at lower prices.

NO - our Government chose to sacrifice the Parimutuel industry. Which had been given an exclusive "franchise" for 100 years in this country - to offer legal, honest, regulated, fair games to the public. Games where the House did not care who won! Free Enterprise games where skill could actually make you some money.

Instead - we got State Lottery AKA- "Sucker Bets". First they allowed the lottery to entice all the stupid people with big Jackpots. Then they allowed these Redskins to build casinos with backing from the New Jersey Mafia to install AND manage their games. With NO regulation of their books!!

QUOTE
No one under 70 knows how to "play" the dogs. When I buy a program at the track, there should be a 1 page Greyhound Betting for Dummies page in there and the opposing page should be a worksheet that any idiot can fill in and know which dogs to bet.

I agree. But Parimutuel gambling rewards those individuals who are "smart" just like the Stock Market does. People who are idiots still get a marvelous entertainment attraction, AND the thrill of betting a live event. But racing has done a terrible job of promoting itself and courting the new generation. Dog racing in particular - you can hardly find a book on Amazon, on greyhound handicapping. It's a lost art.

America has been suckered. Politicians see that a high percentage of the public are total idiots; that's how we get a George Bush re-elected and that's why we have a Lottery and Indian Mafia, instead of fair and regulated Parimutuel cash markets.

Get ready to hunker down at a Shelter when "dirty bombs" explode, the food supply disappears, and Martial Law is declared!! laugh.gif

Are there still 14 dog tracks operating in Florida? There aren't any Indian run gambling joints in North FL. So I'm guessing these tracks are here to stay?? Some of our tracks don't even have dogs; just dogs via telecast but still have gaming rooms. (Plus the odd gambling ship around here.)

If we loose dog tracks that are regulated by the NGA, won't people just do their racing without any checks and balances to keep the dogs safe?!??
shell61257
QUOTE (shell61257 @ Oct 15 2007, 12:29 PM)
QUOTE (shell61257 @ Oct 15 2007, 12:20 PM)
QUOTE (Railbird9 @ Oct 11 2007, 01:15 AM)
QUOTE (JudiK @ Oct 10 2007, 12:50 PM)
You know, the more I see this kind of thing, the more I think that it's all part of the "Welfare" mind set. You have to save me! You owe me! The government has to save me or the innocents will suffer...

Right, that's exactly what the Indians did. The Indian tribes whined and begged our Government to give them a big handout... Since they were too busy getting drunk to develop anything on their own. Our Government chose to sacrifice the Racing industry.

It could have been the Automobile industry. Give the Indians huge tax breaks and no-cost Federal Loans to open up New Car dealerships right next to existing dealers, and undercut prices. You don't think car dealers would complain "a little" ?? rolleyes.gif

Or how about Retail supermarkets. Allow the Indians to open retail stores right next to existing Safeway, Publix, Albertsons, Kroger, etc. Except those Indians operate TAX FREE and sell a better selection of groceries at lower prices.

NO - our Government chose to sacrifice the Parimutuel industry. Which had been given an exclusive "franchise" for 100 years in this country - to offer legal, honest, regulated, fair games to the public. Games where the House did not care who won! Free Enterprise games where skill could actually make you some money.

Instead - we got State Lottery AKA- "Sucker Bets". First they allowed the lottery to entice all the stupid people with big Jackpots. Then they allowed these Redskins to build casinos with backing from the New Jersey Mafia to install AND manage their games. With NO regulation of their books!!

QUOTE
No one under 70 knows how to "play" the dogs. When I buy a program at the track, there should be a 1 page Greyhound Betting for Dummies page in there and the opposing page should be a worksheet that any idiot can fill in and know which dogs to bet.

I agree. But Parimutuel gambling rewards those individuals who are "smart" just like the Stock Market does. People who are idiots still get a marvelous entertainment attraction, AND the thrill of betting a live event. But racing has done a terrible job of promoting itself and courting the new generation. Dog racing in particular - you can hardly find a book on Amazon, on greyhound handicapping. It's a lost art.

America has been suckered. Politicians see that a high percentage of the public are total idiots; that's how we get a George Bush re-elected and that's why we have a Lottery and Indian Mafia, instead of fair and regulated Parimutuel cash markets.

Get ready to hunker down at a Shelter when "dirty bombs" explode, the food supply disappears, and Martial Law is declared!! laugh.gif

Are there still 14 dog tracks operating in Florida? There aren't any Indian run gambling joints in North FL. So I'm guessing these tracks are here to stay?? Some of our tracks don't even have dogs; just dogs via telecast but still have gaming rooms. (Plus the odd gambling ship around here.)

If we loose dog tracks that are regulated by the NGA, won't people just do their racing without any checks and balances to keep the dogs safe?!??

I do hope I do not offend anyone. I'm just asking questions because people ask me questions. We went to a Dogtoberfest on Saturday and I told people that the dogs like racing and that all dogs are not treated badly. I basically told them that they race but then need a forever home when they get injured or retire due to age.
xracers
Everything depends on what is agreed to in the compact. Quite a few tracks and dog people are hanging on by a thread in the hopes of getting slots. The compact was leaning towards not allowing that. The tracks would be stuck exactly like they are now. The low end tracks would be crazy to stay open year round because now they don't have to if they have cardrooms. Most tracks would be seasonal- and they all will want to run the same time- the winter time.

Look at the tracks, most do no promotion of the dogs, that's because they don't make much money off the dogs. Alot of tracks lose money when the dogs are running live- they don't want the dogs and they would stop in a heartbeat when given the chance to not have the dogs running. The dogs are there for one reason, so they can keep their parimutuel license so they can keep the cardrooms.

Tampa and Melbourne showed that right away. Tampa just opened long enough to make a deal with St Pete and shut down as soon as the deal was made. Melbourne closed because they could with the legislation that was brought in. They did it right to the day- as soon as the legislation went into effect they closed after the last race of the day with no notice to anyone.

Most of the tracks don't want the dogs there anyways- the dogs are just a pawn in all of this.

Don't forget that the legislation that made it possible for Tampa and Melbourne close was passed because the parimutuels where saying that they were losing to much money while the dogs were running live. They're not the only 2 tracks with that problem.
xracers
Here's the latest I could find- it might be a few more days.....

Another Article
JudiK
QUOTE (shell61257 @ Oct 15 2007, 12:29 PM)
QUOTE (shell61257 @ Oct 15 2007, 12:20 PM)
QUOTE (Railbird9 @ Oct 11 2007, 01:15 AM)
QUOTE (JudiK @ Oct 10 2007, 12:50 PM)
You know, the more I see this kind of thing, the more I think that it's all part of the "Welfare" mind set. You have to save me! You owe me! The government has to save me or the innocents will suffer...

Right, that's exactly what the Indians did. The Indian tribes whined and begged our Government to give them a big handout... Since they were too busy getting drunk to develop anything on their own. Our Government chose to sacrifice the Racing industry.

It could have been the Automobile industry. Give the Indians huge tax breaks and no-cost Federal Loans to open up New Car dealerships right next to existing dealers, and undercut prices. You don't think car dealers would complain "a little" ?? rolleyes.gif

Or how about Retail supermarkets. Allow the Indians to open retail stores right next to existing Safeway, Publix, Albertsons, Kroger, etc. Except those Indians operate TAX FREE and sell a better selection of groceries at lower prices.

NO - our Government chose to sacrifice the Parimutuel industry. Which had been given an exclusive "franchise" for 100 years in this country - to offer legal, honest, regulated, fair games to the public. Games where the House did not care who won! Free Enterprise games where skill could actually make you some money.

Instead - we got State Lottery AKA- "Sucker Bets". First they allowed the lottery to entice all the stupid people with big Jackpots. Then they allowed these Redskins to build casinos with backing from the New Jersey Mafia to install AND manage their games. With NO regulation of their books!!

QUOTE
No one under 70 knows how to "play" the dogs. When I buy a program at the track, there should be a 1 page Greyhound Betting for Dummies page in there and the opposing page should be a worksheet that any idiot can fill in and know which dogs to bet.

I agree. But Parimutuel gambling rewards those individuals who are "smart" just like the Stock Market does. People who are idiots still get a marvelous entertainment attraction, AND the thrill of betting a live event. But racing has done a terrible job of promoting itself and courting the new generation. Dog racing in particular - you can hardly find a book on Amazon, on greyhound handicapping. It's a lost art.

America has been suckered. Politicians see that a high percentage of the public are total idiots; that's how we get a George Bush re-elected and that's why we have a Lottery and Indian Mafia, instead of fair and regulated Parimutuel cash markets.

Get ready to hunker down at a Shelter when "dirty bombs" explode, the food supply disappears, and Martial Law is declared!! laugh.gif

Are there still 14 dog tracks operating in Florida? There aren't any Indian run gambling joints in North FL. So I'm guessing these tracks are here to stay?? Some of our tracks don't even have dogs; just dogs via telecast but still have gaming rooms. (Plus the odd gambling ship around here.)

If we loose dog tracks that are regulated by the NGA, won't people just do their racing without any checks and balances to keep the dogs safe?!??

It' called "Derby Dogs" and it happens all over the south eastern US. The dogs aren't usually pure greyhound, they get a greyhound from a track and cross it with something that they think will make the dog tougher, but just as fast. They usually destroy the grey after they're done with it - the same with the runners. I've never seen it, but I've heard about it - the lurcher people know about it and will tell you more than you want to know - it's more than they ever wanted to know too.
greydaddy
We need to fight to keep the tracks open and running well. We also need to do better with advertising and publicity. It's all in the hounds best interest that we do this.
Powered by IP.Board v1.3 © 2003 - iPBFree v.2.1 © 2007