Full Version: Would you vote for a President?
Would you vote for a President who is an Atheist?
Nope or a Prime Minister for that matter LOL.
LOL 
If they were Republican, I would think about it. 
Is there such a thing as a Republican Atheist? Just kidding! I had to say it!
Just kidding! I had to say it!
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Jun 4 2007, 05:14 PM) |
| Is there such a thing as a Republican Atheist? Just kidding! I had to say it! |
That's pretty good!!
It will never happen
| QUOTE (Saved2 @ Jun 4 2007, 11:30 PM) |
| It will never happen |
yeah, I agree.
Sadly, I agree too. I don't think we can look beyond religion, no matter how much we say separation of Church and State. I think it's very short sighted. Just because a person is religious, it doesn't mean he/she is a good person, would make the right decisions, etc, etc. Religion should not be a criteria, and yet, it is the unspoken one.
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Jun 5 2007, 11:49 AM) |
| Sadly, I agree too. I don't think we can look beyond religion, no matter how much we say separation of Church and State. I think it's very short sighted. Just because a person is religious, it doesn't mean he/she is a good person, would make the right decisions, etc, etc. Religion should not be a criteria, and yet, it is the unspoken one. |
So you are saying that you would vote for a radical Muslim for president if you agreed ONLY with their policies? Our country was based on traditional Christian values, whether or not any of us agree with them. You may think it short sighted to value a candidate's religious affiliation, but I think it is naive to not.
I agree with prefontaine ... but also my religion is my life there is no seperation from what I believe and the politics I would vote for. Seperation of Church and State I understand to mean that the state will not fund a religious organiztion or promote it's beliefs over someone elses in public intitutions.
Tara
Tara
My question was about whether you would vote for someone who does not have religion at all. Does not believe in God. I would not vote for a "radical" anything.
For example, I would call this radical:
For example, I would call this radical:
I see your point. What I meant was that if you don't consider someone's religious views a viable source of who they are, then you leave yourself with less of a sense of who the person is. Would I vote for someone who claimed no religious allegiance? Depends on the candidate. I certainly wouldn't vote for someone BECAUSE of their religious affiliation. Same reason I run from the Christian Coalition! Those folks, although we profess to believe in the same God, are total wackjobs!!
Edited to add:
I posted this before you posted the accompanying article. Yep, those are the crazies!! There are radicals on both sides of EVERY fence. Whether we are talking politics, religion, or greyhound racing. And I agree with you that we should do our best to keep them from wielding too much power!!
Edited to add:
I posted this before you posted the accompanying article. Yep, those are the crazies!! There are radicals on both sides of EVERY fence. Whether we are talking politics, religion, or greyhound racing. And I agree with you that we should do our best to keep them from wielding too much power!!
Naw
I really like how this thread is going. It's a good conversation. 
As a browser of the site, this topic made me register. I just had to comment with my 2 cents.
I would definitely vote for an atheist.
Just because someone is an atheist does not mean that they live without morals.
I grew up in a Christian household. In fact, everyone in my immediate family is Christian. However, my husband and I are atheists (he was brought up catholic).
We are both good people—considerate, giving, loving, etc. We are both professional, intelligent people who volunteer and donate to charity….If it sounds like I am defending myself, I guess I am.
It seems like in today’s society, people who don’t believe in “god” are considered immoral and are persecuted. I would love to see a leader of non-belief--or even one who is a believer, but who can separate his own personal beliefs from role as a leader of ALL the people of the country—be elected.
This country was founded on freedom of religion. That’s just what I want. I want the freedom to have my beliefs, which aren’t based on one being, but on the universe, nature, evolution, and kindness.
I would definitely vote for an atheist.
Just because someone is an atheist does not mean that they live without morals.
I grew up in a Christian household. In fact, everyone in my immediate family is Christian. However, my husband and I are atheists (he was brought up catholic).
We are both good people—considerate, giving, loving, etc. We are both professional, intelligent people who volunteer and donate to charity….If it sounds like I am defending myself, I guess I am.
It seems like in today’s society, people who don’t believe in “god” are considered immoral and are persecuted. I would love to see a leader of non-belief--or even one who is a believer, but who can separate his own personal beliefs from role as a leader of ALL the people of the country—be elected.
This country was founded on freedom of religion. That’s just what I want. I want the freedom to have my beliefs, which aren’t based on one being, but on the universe, nature, evolution, and kindness.
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Jun 4 2007, 03:42 PM) |
| Would you vote for a President who is an Atheist? |
If I did would all of our money be changed if they won? Take off "In God We Trust"?
| QUOTE (FreedomChaser @ Aug 3 2007, 09:49 AM) |
| As a browser of the site, this topic made me register. I just had to comment with my 2 cents. I would definitely vote for an atheist. Just because someone is an atheist does not mean that they live without morals. I grew up in a Christian household. In fact, everyone in my immediate family is Christian. However, my husband and I are atheists (he was brought up catholic). We are both good people—considerate, giving, loving, etc. We are both professional, intelligent people who volunteer and donate to charity….If it sounds like I am defending myself, I guess I am. It seems like in today’s society, people who don’t believe in “god” are considered immoral and are persecuted. I would love to see a leader of non-belief--or even one who is a believer, but who can separate his own personal beliefs from role as a leader of ALL the people of the country—be elected. This country was founded on freedom of religion. That’s just what I want. I want the freedom to have my beliefs, which aren’t based on one being, but on the universe, nature, evolution, and kindness. |
Welcome.
You bring up some great points.
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Jun 6 2007, 08:47 AM) |
| My question was about whether you would vote for someone who does not have religion at all. Does not believe in God. I would not vote for a "radical" anything. For example, I would call this radical: |
First off -
Hey, where'd you get the Alaska paper? Are you from Alaska?
Second -
I don't know if I'd vote for an atheist. I'd have to see if his/her non-belief affected their platform. I already have issues with belief affecting policy and platform.
I know atheists who are as moral as the day is long, believers who are lying, cheating scum, and vice versa. We're all human, and it takes all kinds. So, it would depend on the individual running, what they stood for, and what plans they had to lead our country.
QUOTE (Beryl @ Aug 3 2007, 09:27 AM)
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Jun 4 2007, 03:42 PM) |
| Would you vote for a President who is an Atheist? |
If I did would all of our money be changed if they won? Take off "In God We Trust"?
Possibly, but that is a totally different subject. Just as you probably wouldn't appreciate "In Allah We Trust" or "In Goddess We Trust," I don't particularly like having my money (and many other things for that matter) stamped with something in which i truly don't believe.
Wouldn't "In Liberty We Trust" or "Let Freedom Ring," or something else of that nature, better represent the population of the United States?
QUOTE (simile @ Aug 3 2007, 10:17 AM)
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Jun 6 2007, 08:47 AM) |
Hey, where'd you get the Alaska paper? Are you from Alaska?
Second -
I don't know if I'd vote for an atheist. I'd have to see if his/her non-belief affected their platform. I already have issues with belief affecting policy and platform.
I know atheists who are as moral as the day is long, believers who are lying, cheating scum, and vice versa. We're all human, and it takes all kinds. So, it would depend on the individual running, what they stood for, and what plans they had to lead our country.
Exactly!
Probably 99% of people believe in some form of a GOD , why would we remove in GOD we trust to cater to the 1% that dose'nt , there is so much to say on this subject but its best to just let it drop as it's no sweat off my brow , there is a passage in the BIBLE that says shake the dust off your feet and leave.
Dan--shaking
Dan--shaking
Agreed - I have told many friends let me have my own beliefs and please do not try and shove your beliefs down my throat. That also goes with politics.
QUOTE (FreedomChaser @ Aug 3 2007, 11:39 AM)
| QUOTE (Beryl @ Aug 3 2007, 09:27 AM) | ||
If I did would all of our money be changed if they won? Take off "In God We Trust"? |
Possibly, but that is a totally different subject. Just as you probably wouldn't appreciate "In Allah We Trust" or "In Goddess We Trust," I don't particularly like having my money (and many other things for that matter) stamped with something in which i truly don't believe.
Wouldn't "In Liberty We Trust" or "Let Freedom Ring," or something else of that nature, better represent the population of the United States?
Wouldn't "In Liberty We Trust" or "Let Freedom Ring," or something else of that nature, better represent the population of the United States?
I agree!
QUOTE (Billie @ Aug 5 2007, 08:15 AM)
| QUOTE (FreedomChaser @ Aug 3 2007, 11:39 AM) | ||
| QUOTE (Beryl @ Aug 3 2007, 09:27 AM)
If I did would all of our money be changed if they won? Take off "In God We Trust"? |
Possibly, but that is a totally different subject. Just as you probably wouldn't appreciate "In Allah We Trust" or "In Goddess We Trust," I don't particularly like having my money (and many other things for that matter) stamped with something in which i truly don't believe.
Wouldn't "In Liberty We Trust" or "Let Freedom Ring," or something else of that nature, better represent the population of the United States?
Wouldn't "In Liberty We Trust" or "Let Freedom Ring," or something else of that nature, better represent the population of the United States?
I agree!
I agree too.
| QUOTE (Saved2 @ Aug 3 2007, 12:04 PM) |
| Probably 99% of people believe in some form of a GOD , why would we remove in GOD we trust to cater to the 1% that dose'nt , there is so much to say on this subject but its best to just let it drop as it's no sweat off my brow , there is a passage in the BIBLE that says shake the dust off your feet and leave.<br /><br />Dan--shaking |
Well, the number is more like 12%, not 1% of the American population being Atheist anyway.
Times change, beliefs change.
I KNOW, I know, I am going to HELL! HELL!!!!
I used to have a co-worker who was always trying to talk me into being a big heavy-duty Christian like him...he was "born-again". That's fine that he's born-again but don't push it on me. Or anyone else. He told me I was going to hell, I said what about the heathens who live on an island somewhere who don't believe in a GOD they don't even know about? Are they going to hell? He said "That's an old arguement." I said, "Yeah, and/but it's a GOOD one."
I don't consider myself an Atheist so much as an Agnostic, well, I go back and forth I guess.
The only thing is that sometimes when I tell someone who is religious that I am Agnostic, they tend to think that's license to "sway me". It doesn't mean I am undecided and need "help" or "saving".
And someone being self-righteous and condescending about GOD and the BIBLE etc and how anyone who doesn't believe in it is going to BURN BURN BURN etc etc etc is just....
Anyway, being Atheist doesn't make any person immoral etc, not by any means. People who think that are ones who just fear what they don't understand...and don't like. I would almost prefer an Atheist president, frankly. Bush has used his religious views to screw up this country than almost any president we've ever had.
*shakes*
How about "In the Golden Rule We Trust." Or "In Humanity We Trust?"
Seriously, I don't see a need to put God on our currency. What does God have to do with it? Separation of Church and State means what then? Why would we accept a Christian God over say Allah? Because the majority of Americans are Christian? How about voting for a Jewish President then? Could that ever happen?
To me, the bottom line is voting for a President that I think will do what is best for this country and for the people. Someone who puts our country first, before religion. If he truly represents the people of this country, then he would have to represent people with many faiths and some without. It's certainly not a job I would want.
Seriously, I don't see a need to put God on our currency. What does God have to do with it? Separation of Church and State means what then? Why would we accept a Christian God over say Allah? Because the majority of Americans are Christian? How about voting for a Jewish President then? Could that ever happen?
To me, the bottom line is voting for a President that I think will do what is best for this country and for the people. Someone who puts our country first, before religion. If he truly represents the people of this country, then he would have to represent people with many faiths and some without. It's certainly not a job I would want.
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Aug 6 2007, 11:56 AM) |
| How about "In the Golden Rule We Trust." Or "In Humanity We Trust?" Seriously, I don't see a need to put God on our currency. What does God have to do with it? Separation of Church and State means what then? Why would we accept a Christian God over say Allah? Because the majority of Americans are Christian? How about voting for a Jewish President then? Could that ever happen? To me, the bottom line is voting for a President that I think will do what is best for this country and for the people. Someone who puts our country first, before religion. If he truly represents the people of this country, then he would have to represent people with many faiths and some without. It's certainly not a job I would want. |
Jews have the same GOD. Mary mother of JESUS was Jewish. Why have IN GOD WE TRUST on our money , becuase this country was formed on CHRISTIAN values.
Yes, I know that Jews believe in the same God. However I was referring to the majority of Americans as being Christian. Hence, would a Christian vote for a Jewish President. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't clear when I wrote that.
I wouldn't have any problem voting for an atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Jainist, etc for President. In fact, I'd like to hear what they would say about policy issues.
I beleive in God or higher power, and I also believe in reincarnation - the way that you live in this life will affect your next life. I'm sure there are those out there that live their life the way that God and/or Jesus would like for them to live, but there are too many hyprocrites that I have come across in my life, that think that going to church on Sunday and major holidays, absolves them of the way they live during the week.
I beleive in God or higher power, and I also believe in reincarnation - the way that you live in this life will affect your next life. I'm sure there are those out there that live their life the way that God and/or Jesus would like for them to live, but there are too many hyprocrites that I have come across in my life, that think that going to church on Sunday and major holidays, absolves them of the way they live during the week.
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Aug 6 2007, 02:07 PM) |
| Yes, I know that Jews believe in the same God. However I was referring to the majority of Americans as being Christian. Hence, would a Christian vote for a Jewish President. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't clear when I wrote that. |
Idont know the numbers but there are many Christian Jews and they have there own churches , even in Isreal (sp)
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Aug 6 2007, 02:07 PM) |
| Yes, I know that Jews believe in the same God. However I was referring to the majority of Americans as being Christian. Hence, would a Christian vote for a Jewish President. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't clear when I wrote that. |
To answer your question if the man said he was a born again Christian then yes we would vote for that Jewish man.
I wouldn't care if they didn't believe in God. The word God is used so loosley, just the other day at the hall of fame, those guys used god so much and even though they probably believe, too much.
JMO
JMO
If I thought he/she was the right person to be president i would vote for them no matter what their religion or beliefs are. Heck I would even vote for d2p if he proved to me he was the right person to be president. 
| QUOTE (Beryl @ Aug 8 2007, 04:47 PM) |
| If I thought he/she was the right person to be president i would vote for them no matter what their religion or beliefs are. Heck I would even vote for d2p if he proved to me he was the right person to be president. |
Thanks Beryl
I'd vote for D2P.
I would vote for someone who doesn't believe in god. As long as they don't take all my hard earn money in taxes, and if they make this country safer, get the illegals immigrants out, end the war the right way and not just play beltway politics but really care about us the people of the us then I would vote for them.
I would vote for someone who doesn't believe in god. As long as they don't take all my hard earn money in taxes, and if they make this country safer, get the illegals immigrants out, end the war the right way and not just play beltway politics but really care about us the people of the us then I would vote for them.
Should we get a petition going "D2P FOR PRESIDENT"?
| QUOTE (greydaddy @ Aug 9 2007, 10:50 AM) |
| I'd vote for D2P. I would vote for someone who doesn't believe in god. As long as they don't take all my hard earn money in taxes, and if they make this country safer, get the illegals immigrants out, end the war the right way and not just play beltway politics but really care about us the people of the us then I would vote for them. |
You can be my running mate.
QUOTE (Saved2 @ Aug 8 2007, 02:45 PM)
| QUOTE (WhippetTalk @ Aug 6 2007, 02:07 PM) |
| Yes, I know that Jews believe in the same God. However I was referring to the majority of Americans as being Christian. Hence, would a Christian vote for a Jewish President. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't clear when I wrote that. |
To answer your question if the man said he was a born again Christian then yes we would vote for that Jewish man.
Sorry, but that made me laugh out loud!
No wait, I'm not sorry, I lied.
But then again, I like to pull the wings off angels in my spare time.
| QUOTE (Beryl @ Aug 9 2007, 11:20 AM) |
| Should we get a petition going "D2P FOR PRESIDENT"? |
What are these born again christians? Were they once sinners? I don't understand when people say that.
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Aug 9 2007, 02:39 PM) |
| What are these born again christians? Were they once sinners? I don't understand when people say that. |
I agree and what about the ones that say "I was saved" Saved from what?
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Aug 9 2007, 02:39 PM) |
| What are these born again christians? Were they once sinners? I don't understand when people say that. |
Here's one internet definition....my friend/ex co-worker who was/is born-again basically did it because he'd sinned a lot when he was younger, and in order to make himself feel better about himself, he became "born again" as a way to "erase" his past digressions and start over.
Well, that doesn't happen. You still did what you did, whether or not you like it, whether you like to admit it or not, your past is your past, and whether or not you did some wild things in your past, anything in your past is part of who you really are. If you're a good person now, what's the need for all the drama...and the ensuing superior remarks to not "born-again" people.
I said, "just deal with your wild past and move on!"
Born again is a term used originally and mainly in Christianity, where it is associated with salvation, conversion and spiritual rebirth. By extension it is applied in other areas, including a transcending personal experience — or the experience of being spiritually reborn as a "new" human being.
thanks Billie for that.
We all did stuff and I am not born again christian even though I believe in god and such.
You can't erase what you did.
I have heard alot of criminals who killed people see the light in jail and become this. Hey, you still killed people, you can erase that.
We all did stuff and I am not born again christian even though I believe in god and such.
You can't erase what you did.
I have heard alot of criminals who killed people see the light in jail and become this. Hey, you still killed people, you can erase that.
Didn't you ever watch the Sopranos? You whack a guy on Saturday then go to church on Sunday and it's all good!
I have to see what their policies are and how they would run the country.
QUOTE (Billie @ Aug 9 2007, 02:44 PM)
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Aug 9 2007, 02:39 PM) |
| What are these born again christians? Were they once sinners? I don't understand when people say that. |
Here's one internet definition....my friend/ex co-worker who was/is born-again basically did it because he'd sinned a lot when he was younger, and in order to make himself feel better about himself, he became "born again" as a way to "erase" his past digressions and start over.
Well, that doesn't happen. You still did what you did, whether or not you like it, whether you like to admit it or not, your past is your past, and whether or not you did some wild things in your past, anything in your past is part of who you really are. If you're a good person now, what's the need for all the drama...and the ensuing superior remarks to not "born-again" people.
I said, "just deal with your wild past and move on!"
Born again is a term used originally and mainly in Christianity, where it is associated with salvation, conversion and spiritual rebirth. By extension it is applied in other areas, including a transcending personal experience — or the experience of being spiritually reborn as a "new" human being.
You say that doesn't happen , where are you getting YOUR statements from , ---From the King James BIBLE all are sinners you were born of water , to see HEAVEN you MUST BE BORN OF THE SPIRIT or BE BORN AGAIN
You said you still did what you did---not in GODS eyes your sins have been washed away.
Think about this , If I'm wrong and there is no eternial life then I have lost nothing , But if you are wrong you have lost everything ---Eternity is a very long time to suffer.
I prefer it when religion and politics are kept strictly separate. This is a country of wide diversity, and I would definately vote for an atheist candidate, if I thought they'd be the best leader for our country.
| QUOTE (Saved2 @ Aug 12 2007, 01:43 PM) |
| [QUOTE=Billie,Aug 9 2007, 02:44 PM] ...Think about this , If I'm wrong and there is no eternial life then I have lost nothing , But if you are wrong you have lost everything ---Eternity is a very long time to suffer. |
By the way, in philosophy, this is called "Pascal's Wager". The problem with it, from a logical standpoint, is that there are so very many concepts of the afterlife. Even christians cannot agree on how to get there. So to "wager" on it, one must choose the correct one, and hope you're right.
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Aug 9 2007, 02:53 PM) |
| thanks Billie for that. We all did stuff and I am not born again christian even though I believe in god and such. You can't erase what you did. I have heard alot of criminals who killed people see the light in jail and become this. Hey, you still killed people, you can erase that. |
Lots of people have never heard the WORD and being commited to jail gave them the opportunity to be captive listeners now many of these will become what we call jail house conversons and they will not fool GOD but some are real.
The only sin you cant erase is the sin of BLASPHEME OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
| QUOTE (greyhoundmama @ Aug 12 2007, 02:05 PM) |
| [QUOTE=Saved2,Aug 12 2007, 01:43 PM] [QUOTE=Billie,Aug 9 2007, 02:44 PM] ...Think about this , If I'm wrong and there is no eternial life then I have lost nothing , But if you are wrong you have lost everything ---Eternity is a very long time to suffer. [/QUOTE] By the way, in philosophy, this is called "Pascal's Wager". The problem with it, from a logical standpoint, is that there are so very many concepts of the afterlife. Even christians cannot agree on how to get there. So to "wager" on it, one must choose the correct one, and hope you're right. |
CHRISTIANS know how to get to HEAVEN , there is only one true way GODS way--see JOHN 3-16 Logical is mans way , for eternal life you must follow GODS way. This is where a lot of people get in trouble they want it mans way , ETERNAL things are GODS way.
QUOTE (Beryl @ Aug 9 2007, 02:41 PM)
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Aug 9 2007, 02:39 PM) |
| What are these born again christians? Were they once sinners? I don't understand when people say that. |
I agree and what about the ones that say "I was saved" Saved from what?
SAVED from what--how about ETERNAL DAMNATION (SPENDING ETERNITY IN HELL)
I believe in God but not in Hell. I think the church made this up so they would be able to scare their parishioners into coming each Sunday to church. I went to a church where they said we were going to Hell if you didn't give enough money to the church each week. I left that church and found another one where they didn't do scare tactics, gripe about money and your contributions and your all going to Hell etc.
This is JMO and I respect anyone's here. That is why the USA is a great country, we have freedom of speech.
This is JMO and I respect anyone's here. That is why the USA is a great country, we have freedom of speech.
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Aug 9 2007, 02:53 PM) |
| thanks Billie for that. We all did stuff and I am not born again christian even though I believe in god and such. You can't erase what you did. I have heard alot of criminals who killed people see the light in jail and become this. Hey, you still killed people, you can erase that. |
Ok, here's my opinion on this. First, I vote for the man, not the party, don't give a crap what his religion is as long as he isn't a devil worshipper. They're a little too freaky for me. Can we say crap when discussing religion? Woops too late said it. Hope I don't go to hell. God is the only One who's perfect. None of us are perfect although there are some people who think they are. We ALL make mistakes. Does that mean we're going to hell? I don't think so. I don't think there is a hell. God is supposed to be forgiving so why would he damn people to an eternity of suffering? My opinion so no getting on your high horse and reading me the riot act, or the Bible chapter and verse. There may be Pugatory - which to me is a holding cell until God thinks you've learned your lesson and then lets you enter Heaven OR you go right to Heaven do not pass go do not collect $100.00. All my opinion. I do believe in God and I don't believe everything the Church tells me. In view of all the commotion in the Catholic Church that might be a good thing. There are way too many manmade laws. By the way, when I was a kid growing up it was a huge sin to eat meat on Fridays. So, confessing that and doing pennance for that was really unnecessary I guess because years later they claimed a "do over" and voila, no more sin to eat meat on Fridays. Couldn't enter a church unless your head was covered. Abra Kadabra - law changed, you can go to church with a naked head now - no problem. St. Christopher was revered for a gazillion years as a Saint - hmmmm changed their minds - not a Saint anymore. Poor Chris! I still have his medals and he's been on my keychain for 42 years and is alright in my book. Religion is a hot topic. I would never FORCE my opinions and beliefs on anyone and don't expect anyone to force theirs on me. Nobody's right and nobody's wrong. My problem is with the people who tell me I'm not entitled to my opinion. They usually end up sorry they denied me my right to think what I want to because when I'm finished losing it, they've got an extra orafice. Like the way I cleaned that up? Amen
Well said, missy&dukesmom. The way I look at it, there are many paths up the mountain, and none of us can be certain what's up there until we get there.
| QUOTE (greyhoundmama @ Aug 12 2007, 10:45 PM) |
| Well said, missy&dukesmom. The way I look at it, there are many paths up the mountain, and none of us can be certain what's up there until we get there. |
I agree and I have said it in previous posts we can be friends but do not try to shove your beliefs down my throat and that goes for politics too.
Missy & Dukes Mom
Satin knows GOD , but it wont help him now , man has his own ideas on how things should be thats mans way
, then there are the way things are and are gonna be thats GODS way , there is a church many of you speak of , it is run by a man , there is no way I will defend it as none of what is done is in the BIBLE , if you are in a Church and they dont read GODS word I would suggest you run as fast as you can as they are hiding GODS word.
, then there are the way things are and are gonna be thats GODS way , there is a church many of you speak of , it is run by a man , there is no way I will defend it as none of what is done is in the BIBLE , if you are in a Church and they dont read GODS word I would suggest you run as fast as you can as they are hiding GODS word.