Not good for many reasons but even more alarming when it's the only track left in the state.
The track hasn't been resurfaced in 18 years?
Full Version: Injuries way up at Dairyland
Injuries to racing greyhounds increase at Kenosha's Dairyland
Not good for many reasons but even more alarming when it's the only track left in the state.
The track hasn't been resurfaced in 18 years?
Not good for many reasons but even more alarming when it's the only track left in the state.
The track hasn't been resurfaced in 18 years?
That is so sad for those greyhounds that got hurt. Guess they don't care about that.
A few years ago several kennel owners and dog owners in Iowa sued the track over damages caused by a poorly maintained track and lost. I think the case made it all the way to the state supreme court. Following that the track management learned they don't have to look after the dogs welfare and as usual the kennel owners/trainers happily took it in the rear and kept running dogs they didn't own.
Look at the more recent case in Melbourne,FL. Last December track management shut down racing with just a few hours notice and 4 months later they had kennel owners lined up to run new dogs all so the track could host a poker tournament!
I'm not sure how Dennis continues to plug away down there but I can only assume that man is a Saint. If I ever win the lottery I am sending half to him and his wife Claire.
Look at the more recent case in Melbourne,FL. Last December track management shut down racing with just a few hours notice and 4 months later they had kennel owners lined up to run new dogs all so the track could host a poker tournament!
I'm not sure how Dennis continues to plug away down there but I can only assume that man is a Saint. If I ever win the lottery I am sending half to him and his wife Claire.
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 18 2008, 08:55 PM) |
| A few years ago several kennel owners and dog owners in Iowa sued the track over damages caused by a poorly maintained track and lost. I think the case made it all the way to the state supreme court. Following that the track management learned they don't have to look after the dogs welfare and as usual the kennel owners/trainers happily took it in the rear and kept running dogs they didn't own. Look at the more recent case in Melbourne,FL. Last December track management shut down racing with just a few hours notice and 4 months later they had kennel owners lined up to run new dogs all so the track could host a poker tournament! I'm not sure how Dennis continues to plug away down there but I can only assume that man is a Saint. If I ever win the lottery I am sending half to him and his wife Claire. |
It was one kennel owner who sued. They were not offered a renewal of their contract because their dogs performed poorly (according to the track). The kennel owners claimed that it was because of injuries due to unsafe racing surfaces. The kennel won the original case but lost it on appeal.
QUOTE (cheryl2 @ Mar 18 2008, 10:12 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 18 2008, 08:55 PM) |
| A few years ago several kennel owners and dog owners in Iowa sued the track over damages caused by a poorly maintained track and lost. I think the case made it all the way to the state supreme court. Following that the track management learned they don't have to look after the dogs welfare and as usual the kennel owners/trainers happily took it in the rear and kept running dogs they didn't own. Look at the more recent case in Melbourne,FL. Last December track management shut down racing with just a few hours notice and 4 months later they had kennel owners lined up to run new dogs all so the track could host a poker tournament! I'm not sure how Dennis continues to plug away down there but I can only assume that man is a Saint. If I ever win the lottery I am sending half to him and his wife Claire. |
It was one kennel owner who sued. They were not offered a renewal of their contract because their dogs performed poorly (according to the track). The kennel owners claimed that it was because of injuries due to unsafe racing surfaces. The kennel won the original case but lost it on appeal.
Cheryl:
Thanks for your post.
There have been so many lawsuits concerning the State of Iowa vs the Greyhound interests over the last few years it is hard to keep them all straight. I think a lot of the animosity from the state came to a head when the former president of the NGA, Herb Koerner, and admitted cheat in the business, refused to testify against Haynes in a slam-dunk case reagrding poisoned meat fed to the dogs? But besides all that, how do you and others continue to support racing there? Aren't you just part of the problem?.
Also, I don't see your name listed as one of the plaintiffs in the case regarding the track conditions. Do you have a link that I've missed?
Injuries are a part of greyhound racing. I don't like it and that is one reason I hate greyhound racing and the treatment they get at some tracks which is aweful.
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 20 2008, 05:18 PM)
| QUOTE (cheryl2 @ Mar 18 2008, 10:12 PM) | ||
It was one kennel owner who sued. They were not offered a renewal of their contract because their dogs performed poorly (according to the track). The kennel owners claimed that it was because of injuries due to unsafe racing surfaces. The kennel won the original case but lost it on appeal. |
Cheryl:
Thanks for your post.
There have been so many lawsuits concerning the State of Iowa vs the Greyhound interests over the last few years it is hard to keep them all straight. I think a lot of the animosity from the state came to a head when the former president of the NGA, Herb Koerner, and admitted cheat in the business, refused to testify against Haynes in a slam-dunk case reagrding poisoned meat fed to the dogs? But besides all that, how do you and others continue to support racing there? Aren't you just part of the problem?.
Also, I don't see your name listed as one of the plaintiffs in the case regarding the track conditions. Do you have a link that I've missed?
clicky
The Yates were the only plaintiffs. Several of us gave depositions but few were called to court.
I'm afraid you've got the Jason Haynes issues mixed up also. He was charged with violating state kennel transfer regulations, that was dropped when no witnesses appeared against him.
The meat case is an entirely different thing. The man who actually contaminated and distributed the meat went to jail, Haynes testified against him and he was given immunity for that. No different than millions of other court cases. Haynes did have to pay National By-Products (the victims) 2.1 million dollars in a civil judgement. Fortunately the state saw fit to yank his license and has since refused to re-instate him repeatedly. Yea for them.
| QUOTE (allforgreys @ Mar 20 2008, 06:06 PM) |
| Injuries are a part of greyhound racing. I don't like it and that is one reason I hate greyhound racing and the treatment they get at some tracks which is aweful. |
Injuries are also part of Football, Baseball, Basketball, Track and Field, Soccer, Swimming, Skiing, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Hiking, Windsurfing, Surfing, Skating, Skateboarding, Tennis, Badmitton, Squash, Cricket, and conceivably every other sport that exists. Do you feel the same about these sports? Or do you mean just sports that involve an animal doing what they love to do?
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 05:30 PM)
| QUOTE (allforgreys @ Mar 20 2008, 06:06 PM) |
| Injuries are a part of greyhound racing. I don't like it and that is one reason I hate greyhound racing and the treatment they get at some tracks which is aweful. |
Injuries are also part of Football, Baseball, Basketball, Track and Field, Soccer, Swimming, Skiing, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Hiking, Windsurfing, Surfing, Skating, Skateboarding, Tennis, Badmitton, Squash, Cricket, and conceivably every other sport that exists. Do you feel the same about these sports? Or do you mean just sports that involve an animal doing what they love to do?
Care to share any statistics to support this statement?
And please add how many of the injured participants are denied treatment and put to sleep.
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 24 2008, 06:08 PM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 05:30 PM) | ||
Injuries are also part of Football, Baseball, Basketball, Track and Field, Soccer, Swimming, Skiing, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Hiking, Windsurfing, Surfing, Skating, Skateboarding, Tennis, Badmitton, Squash, Cricket, and conceivably every other sport that exists. Do you feel the same about these sports? Or do you mean just sports that involve an animal doing what they love to do? |
Care to share any statistics to support this statement?
And please add how many of the injured participants are denied treatment and put to sleep.
You seriously expect me to look up injury statistics on 18+ sporting activities? Yeah, I'll get right on that...
As usual, you missed the point (not to mention that the question was not directed at you). The point is that EVERYTHING any person does, any animal does, has a CHANCE of injury. We have an adopter that took her dogs to Petsmart last year, and on the way out she slipped (the human), fell on the curb, cracked two teeth, and broke her nose. Well, I guess we should go ahead and ban going to Petsmart, huh?
Yes, I know that is being ridiculous. But the fact remains-Greyhounds were put on this earth to run. They weren't put here to hold down one end of the couch, to look cute in their jammies or entertain us with their myriad of issues from happy tail to horrendous gas, or to amuse us with their contorted sleeping positions. They are here to run. We no longer live in a world that they can be allowed to roam free and run at their every whim, so that leaves us to give them the opportunity to express their millenia-old inate desire. I love every aspect of these dogs just as many others on this board do-hell, I make dog collars for a living-I love all the ridiculousness that I mentioned above, the bouncing up and down at feed time, the way they can push you right out of bed with their legs...but what I love most about them is when they are in full flight-face full of sheer joy and passion, giving the chase all they have. Now THAT is what a greyhound lives for.
Edited for spelling.
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 24 2008, 06:08 PM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 05:30 PM) | ||
Injuries are also part of Football, Baseball, Basketball, Track and Field, Soccer, Swimming, Skiing, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Hiking, Windsurfing, Surfing, Skating, Skateboarding, Tennis, Badmitton, Squash, Cricket, and conceivably every other sport that exists. Do you feel the same about these sports? Or do you mean just sports that involve an animal doing what they love to do? |
Care to share any statistics to support this statement?
And please add how many of the injured participants are denied treatment and put to sleep.
Oops, forgot one. Why don't YOU tell US exactly HOW MANY greyhounds are denied care and put to sleep? You get to work on that, and I will take care of the injury rate on the 18+ sports I mentioned...
Ok, I am now waiting for that Grey2K guy to re join here and talk all about this subject. He seems to think he is an expert on the subject. 
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 08:05 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 24 2008, 06:08 PM) | ||
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 05:30 PM)
Injuries are also part of Football, Baseball, Basketball, Track and Field, Soccer, Swimming, Skiing, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Hiking, Windsurfing, Surfing, Skating, Skateboarding, Tennis, Badmitton, Squash, Cricket, and conceivably every other sport that exists. Do you feel the same about these sports? Or do you mean just sports that involve an animal doing what they love to do? |
Care to share any statistics to support this statement?
And please add how many of the injured participants are denied treatment and put to sleep.
Oops, forgot one. Why don't YOU tell US exactly HOW MANY greyhounds are denied care and put to sleep? You get to work on that, and I will take care of the injury rate on the 18+ sports I mentioned...
I have to say injuries is upsetting to me. Had one pup I trained, she did well racing but she broke her hock in one race. Had to retire her. The owner sent her back to me. I and my dr. took care of her and she is fine. She is now here with me living the retirement life and ruling the kennel. She keeps all the pups and my other retired greys in line pretty well. More and more owners, racing kennels, trainers are doing more for the dogs that get injured and paying the bills too. They love their dogs and not going to put them down unless there is no other alternative for recovery.
That's awesome, Greydaddy. Good to hear she has a good home. Injuries are always one of the worst things that can happen. But they will happen, and it must be dealt with. One of my retirees had a broken hock, it was plated, he took about 6 months off, and went back to racing. Never was too compettive after that, but some real money, time and effort was spent on him.
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 08:02 PM) |
| But the fact remains-Greyhounds were put on this earth to run. They weren't put here to hold down one end of the couch, to look cute in their jammies or entertain us with their myriad of issues from happy tail to horrendous gas, or to amuse us with their contorted sleeping positions. They are here to run. We no longer live in a world that they can be allowed to roam free and run at their every whim, so that leaves us to give them the opportunity to express their millenia-old inate desire. I love every aspect of these dogs just as many others on this board do-hell, I make dog collars for a living-I love all the ridiculousness that I mentioned above, the bouncing up and down at feed time, the way they can push you right out of bed with their legs...but what I love most about them is when they are in full flight-face full of sheer joy and passion, giving the chase all they have. Now THAT is what a greyhound lives for. Edited for spelling. |
You are so right with everything you say here.
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 08:05 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 24 2008, 06:08 PM) | ||
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 05:30 PM)
Injuries are also part of Football, Baseball, Basketball, Track and Field, Soccer, Swimming, Skiing, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Hiking, Windsurfing, Surfing, Skating, Skateboarding, Tennis, Badmitton, Squash, Cricket, and conceivably every other sport that exists. Do you feel the same about these sports? Or do you mean just sports that involve an animal doing what they love to do? |
Care to share any statistics to support this statement?
And please add how many of the injured participants are denied treatment and put to sleep.
Oops, forgot one. Why don't YOU tell US exactly HOW MANY greyhounds are denied care and put to sleep? You get to work on that, and I will take care of the injury rate on the 18+ sports I mentioned...
Let's go one-for-one and we can see who runs out of names first.
I'll start: Petey died after Gene Wayne King(who later plead no contest to the animal cruelty charge) denied him medical care in Daytona.
I can't wait to see the name of a participant in any of the 18 sports you mentioned who was left untreated in a crate for over 24 hours with muscle and bone exposed and died as a result of the injuries.
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 08:02 PM) |
| ...but what I love most about them is when they are in full flight-face full of sheer joy and passion, giving the chase all they have. Now THAT is what a greyhound lives for. |
and dies for too.
Jenna
And that's what they do.
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 28 2008, 04:29 PM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 08:05 PM) | ||||
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 24 2008, 06:08 PM)
Care to share any statistics to support this statement? And please add how many of the injured participants are denied treatment and put to sleep. |
Oops, forgot one. Why don't YOU tell US exactly HOW MANY greyhounds are denied care and put to sleep? You get to work on that, and I will take care of the injury rate on the 18+ sports I mentioned...
Let's go one-for-one and we can see who runs out of names first.
I'll start: Petey died after Gene Wayne King(who later plead no contest to the animal cruelty charge) denied him medical care in Daytona.
I can't wait to see the name of a participant in any of the 18 sports you mentioned who was left untreated in a crate for over 24 hours with muscle and bone exposed and died as a result of the injuries.
Do you honestly think I condone animal cruelty? Are you really that thick headed? Greyhound racing has a lot more to offer than what a few sub-human, worthless pieces of crap do to a small percentage of the dogs. And NO, I am not trivializing the death of even one greyhound. But what you forget is that we live in an imperfect world, and there isn't a single activity on earth that is without it's flaws.
Okay, since you want to go head to head with me on something (for some unknown reason), how about this-you name every single incident where a racing greyhound was mistreated, and I will name every single time a pet greyhound has had to be rescued from an adopters home. Bet they would come out about the same, because there are scumbags in all walks of life. (And no, I am not really going to start rehashing animal cruelty cases)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 05:30 PM) |
| Injuries are also part of Football, Baseball, Basketball, Track and Field, Soccer, Swimming, Skiing, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Hiking, Windsurfing, Surfing, Skating, Skateboarding, Tennis, Badmitton, Squash, Cricket, and conceivably every other sport that exists. Do you feel the same about these sports? Or do you mean just sports that involve an animal doing what they love to do? |
Prefontaine, which of those sports do you participate in on a regular basis? Let's pick one. How about rock climbing? I'm gonna guess you'll say no, you don't go rock climing too often and certainly not every other day. Why? No fun? How about snow boarding or sky diving? Base jumping? Do you race cars professionally?
I don't do any of them because I don't want to get hurt. They all sound like a blast and even though I LOVE to have fun, I've decided it just isn't worth the risk.
Greyhounds don't get that choice.
Here's a more relevant example. Your kids. Do you let them jump out of airplanes twice a week or give them little turbo powered go carts to race on the streets? Do they go to pee-wee football practice or toddler ice hockey after school every day? What if they started getting hurt on the field or hit by cars in the street? Would you just figure oh well, every sport has injuries?
I think most decent parents would move heaven and earth, if that's what it took to keep their kids safe from harm. They wouldn't agree with you at all. They would get to the bottom of the problem and get it fixed or take their kids somewhere else.
Why should it be any different for the greys?
Jenna
QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 07:33 AM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 05:30 PM) |
| Injuries are also part of Football, Baseball, Basketball, Track and Field, Soccer, Swimming, Skiing, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Hiking, Windsurfing, Surfing, Skating, Skateboarding, Tennis, Badmitton, Squash, Cricket, and conceivably every other sport that exists. Do you feel the same about these sports? Or do you mean just sports that involve an animal doing what they love to do? |
Prefontaine, which of those sports do you participate in on a regular basis? Let's pick one. How about rock climbing? I'm gonna guess you'll say no, you don't go rock climing too often and certainly not every other day. Why? No fun? How about snow boarding or sky diving? Base jumping? Do you race cars professionally?
I don't do any of them because I don't want to get hurt. They all sound like a blast and even though I LOVE to have fun, I've decided it just isn't worth the risk.
Greyhounds don't get that choice.
Here's a more relevant example. Your kids. Do you let them jump out of airplanes twice a week or give them little turbo powered go carts to race on the streets? Do they go to pee-wee football practice or toddler ice hockey after school every day? What if they started getting hurt on the field or hit by cars in the street? Would you just figure oh well, every sport has injuries?
I think most decent parents would move heaven and earth, if that's what it took to keep their kids safe from harm. They wouldn't agree with you at all. They would get to the bottom of the problem and get it fixed or take their kids somewhere else.
Why should it be any different for the greys?
Jenna
Actually Jenna, while I can see your overprotective, can't-take-a-chance-for-fear-of-getting-hurt side of the argument, you are flat out wrong. You want a history of my sporting activities, here you go.
My parents got me into the traditional sports when I was about 6-baseball, basketball, soccer. Broke my foot playing soccer (kept playing), black eye and broken nose (two separate occasions of being run into-I played first base-kept playing) playing baseball. In high school, I started mountain biking and road biking, back packing, and rock climbing-ALL CONDONED by my parents-remember, I was still a minor. I have been through everything from scrapes and bruises to broken teeth while biking, but I still bike all the time (yesterday in fact), and have about $12,000 worth of bikes in my garage right now. On to rock climbing-I have climbed for about 14 years now (don't get out much anymore because of time constraints), have broken 4 ribs, a shoulder blade, and a collarbone. Skiing and snowbarding, something I have participated in since I was 10 years old, I have surprisingly never broken anything, and my parents never gave a second thought to letting me go to CO or UT to pursue something that I love. I have climbed a large number of big mountains, including the second highest peak in the contiguous US (while still a minor, mind you). One of my best friends died in a climbing accident last year on the Grand Teton. Would I still go climbing? You bet.
If you need evidence of any of this, just let me know. I have Jonathan's obituary, all of my x-rays, and I can take pictures of all of my equipment whenever you would like. I can give you my parents phone number in case you want to ask them about it.
See Jenna, though my parents were TERRIFIC parents-the don't drink, been married for 40 years, my father made plenty of money, we ALL went to church 3 times a week-they didn't feel that preventing me from doing something that I had a passion for was the way to raise me. They believed that letting me experience all that life had to offer, and GUIDING me through these endevours, was the way to raise a well balanced man.
Jenna, there is a BIG difference in doing everything reasonable to keep your kids (and dogs) safe, and doing everything possible to ensure there is no way that they could possible ever get hurt doing anything at all. That is called SHELTERING, and in my opinion, MISTREATMENT.
I also played, baseball, football, basketball, biking, skateboarding with approval from my parents. Also, had some injuries, not as severe as prefontaine. I love playing these sports and new there was a risk of injury. I want everyone who plays sports, and the doggies to be safe and I have to say that is being done. I also believe we are getting better with technology and the injuries are taken care of better now then in the past.
I had one injury when I was living at home. I was going to get our mail and slipped on the ice/snow and landed in the snow pile on the driveway and torn my hip cartilage. I was being careful. Who should I blame for this? My dad for putting the snow pile there and not putting down a de icer. Injuries do happen.
Great Post Prefontaine!
Jenna do you really think kids needs to live under a rock and not have fun? As for the go kart arguement you made (even though you were talking about in the street), more than 1/2 of my friends are race car drivers whether is drag, oval track, road courses, etc.. they ALL started when they were just little kids, and if parents have stopped kids from racing because of a wreck, broken ribs etc. then they wouldn't been in the career path they are in.. their parents SUPPORT them because this is what they want and LOVE to do...and even my friend Josh whose dream is to be on a NASCAR pit crew, he gets hurts ALL time time doing pit stops, whethere is at a Hooter's race here in Concord, or an ARCA race in Florida...i'm sorry your arguement just makes no sense to me...
And as for Prefontaine's post, i've seen the location where he fell one time, i've seen his bikes, he is a very active person, constantly having injuries and after the weekends he calls and he's been skiing, running, biking or some kind of active that he could get hurt in, yet he still does it because its what he LOVES to do...
Jenna do you really think kids needs to live under a rock and not have fun? As for the go kart arguement you made (even though you were talking about in the street), more than 1/2 of my friends are race car drivers whether is drag, oval track, road courses, etc.. they ALL started when they were just little kids, and if parents have stopped kids from racing because of a wreck, broken ribs etc. then they wouldn't been in the career path they are in.. their parents SUPPORT them because this is what they want and LOVE to do...and even my friend Josh whose dream is to be on a NASCAR pit crew, he gets hurts ALL time time doing pit stops, whethere is at a Hooter's race here in Concord, or an ARCA race in Florida...i'm sorry your arguement just makes no sense to me...
And as for Prefontaine's post, i've seen the location where he fell one time, i've seen his bikes, he is a very active person, constantly having injuries and after the weekends he calls and he's been skiing, running, biking or some kind of active that he could get hurt in, yet he still does it because its what he LOVES to do...
I agree. Great post prefontaine.
Do you think Jenna means that we all can think and know we could get injured but the greyhounds don't?
Do you think Jenna means that we all can think and know we could get injured but the greyhounds don't?
Prefontaine-
Everything you have tried to get across in this forum is not only reasonable but the truth.
As far as the greys getting hurt racing, I've had more injuries with my adopted greys at home then I have at the track.
At the track, there is a risk every time we put one in the box. At home there is a risk every time they get together and ruffhouse in the yard. They're dogs. They play ruff.
Everything you have tried to get across in this forum is not only reasonable but the truth.
As far as the greys getting hurt racing, I've had more injuries with my adopted greys at home then I have at the track.
At the track, there is a risk every time we put one in the box. At home there is a risk every time they get together and ruffhouse in the yard. They're dogs. They play ruff.
as far as i know (even with communicating with his owner) Al never had a race injury...
Since i've adopted him he's had blow pads, and limps here and there he even head butted a fence because he didn't slow down in time
Since i've adopted him he's had blow pads, and limps here and there he even head butted a fence because he didn't slow down in time
Thanks for keeping this discussion civil.
I have jumped out of airplanes and rock climbed too. I am not saying people should not do those things to keep from being injured.
What I am saying is that we decide for ourselves when we take the risks and when we don't. We aren't forced to take them day in and day out. A racing greyhound is much more likely to break a hock on any given day than some guy who goes out and plays baseball one Sunday afternoon.
10, 20, 50 or 100 broken hocks are not "okay" just because people in this world break their legs too. One has nothing to do with the other.
If the track surface needs to be looked at, if the injuries are higher than before, even if they remain the same, it is never "okay" or acceptable for any other reason than someone finding out for sure.
The dogs are not in a position to do it for themselves. They are in other people's care and to assume that is always the best place for them....... well, we have seen that is not always the case.
Jenna
What I am saying is that we decide for ourselves when we take the risks and when we don't. We aren't forced to take them day in and day out. A racing greyhound is much more likely to break a hock on any given day than some guy who goes out and plays baseball one Sunday afternoon.
10, 20, 50 or 100 broken hocks are not "okay" just because people in this world break their legs too. One has nothing to do with the other.
If the track surface needs to be looked at, if the injuries are higher than before, even if they remain the same, it is never "okay" or acceptable for any other reason than someone finding out for sure.
The dogs are not in a position to do it for themselves. They are in other people's care and to assume that is always the best place for them....... well, we have seen that is not always the case.
Jenna
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Mar 29 2008, 10:12 AM) |
| I had one injury when I was living at home. I was going to get our mail and slipped on the ice/snow and landed in the snow pile on the driveway and torn my hip cartilage. I was being careful. Who should I blame for this? My dad for putting the snow pile there and not putting down a de icer. Injuries do happen. |
De icer? What makes you think you need a de icer? Get back out there and pick up the mail a hundred more times and quit complaining. Everyone gets injured, right? So just get out there and keep doing it the same way you did it before.
Jenna
| QUOTE (Redstripe @ Mar 29 2008, 10:13 AM) |
| Great Post Prefontaine! Jenna do you really think kids needs to live under a rock and not have fun? As for the go kart arguement you made (even though you were talking about in the street), more than 1/2 of my friends are race car drivers whether is drag, oval track, road courses, etc.. they ALL started when they were just little kids, and if parents have stopped kids from racing because of a wreck, broken ribs etc. then they wouldn't been in the career path they are in.. their parents SUPPORT them because this is what they want and LOVE to do...and even my friend Josh whose dream is to be on a NASCAR pit crew, he gets hurts ALL time time doing pit stops, whethere is at a Hooter's race here in Concord, or an ARCA race in Florida...i'm sorry your arguement just makes no sense to me... And as for Prefontaine's post, i've seen the location where he fell one time, i've seen his bikes, he is a very active person, constantly having injuries and after the weekends he calls and he's been skiing, running, biking or some kind of active that he could get hurt in, yet he still does it because its what he LOVES to do... |
You have completely missed my point, Redstripe. Kids don't know how to watch for cars, so ya gotta pretty much do that for them or just keep them out of the street. I know, I know, it spoils their fun but it just isn't the wisest idea for parents to let their kids do whatever they want.
It's kind of the same with dogs. Can't expect them to run races on their own or keep their own track in tip top shape. Again, it's a people thing.
Jenna
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Mar 29 2008, 10:18 AM) |
| I agree. Great post prefontaine. Do you think Jenna means that we all can think and know we could get injured but the greyhounds don't? |
You almost have it.
When Pretontaine rides his bike and falls, he learns something. Either a rock was in the way or the hill was too steep or he wasn't paying attention or whatever. He has the intelligence to understand what went wrong and the free will to either not go back to that particular spot or to move the rock or take the hill slower, so he doesn't fall like that again. No one is making him ride his bike under the same conditions every day for the next two or three years. If he had to do that, his chances of falling many more times would be that much greater.
It is unfair to say that greyhounds should continue to run under conditions that may be causing more injuries without someone at least considering the possibility that risks could be reduced if the conditions were improved. The greyhounds can't do that for themselves like people can. And that is why comparing their injuries with human injuries doesn't make any sense.
Jenna
QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 12:24 PM)
| QUOTE (Redstripe @ Mar 29 2008, 10:13 AM) |
| Great Post Prefontaine! Jenna do you really think kids needs to live under a rock and not have fun? As for the go kart arguement you made (even though you were talking about in the street), more than 1/2 of my friends are race car drivers whether is drag, oval track, road courses, etc.. they ALL started when they were just little kids, and if parents have stopped kids from racing because of a wreck, broken ribs etc. then they wouldn't been in the career path they are in.. their parents SUPPORT them because this is what they want and LOVE to do...and even my friend Josh whose dream is to be on a NASCAR pit crew, he gets hurts ALL time time doing pit stops, whethere is at a Hooter's race here in Concord, or an ARCA race in Florida...i'm sorry your arguement just makes no sense to me... And as for Prefontaine's post, i've seen the location where he fell one time, i've seen his bikes, he is a very active person, constantly having injuries and after the weekends he calls and he's been skiing, running, biking or some kind of active that he could get hurt in, yet he still does it because its what he LOVES to do... |
You have completely missed my point, Redstripe. Kids don't know how to watch for cars, so ya gotta pretty much do that for them or just keep them out of the street. I know, I know, it spoils their fun but it just isn't the wisest idea for parents to let their kids do whatever they want.
It's kind of the same with dogs. Can't expect them to run races on their own or keep their own track in tip top shape. Again, it's a people thing.
Jenna
You have to let kids live to learn and learn to live.
I know that resurfacing tracks has something to do with helping keep down injuries or something, i don't know the science behind it or anything but i've heard that it helps. So, should i learn the "science" and create my own area for Al to run and not let him run in random ball fields because he could get hurt? I think if Al found out that i wasn't going to let him run anymore because of this he'd kill me.
I've seen many of Al's races, and at the end of races (that the video doesn't stop immediately) and i see all the grey's gathering at the end and the leadouts going to get there dogs i don't see ONE greyhound that isn't wagging its tail and overly excited over the experience they just had... i know if Al was capable to learn that he could break a hock or something because of the track that he would still run like the wind during a race!
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 11:46 AM) |
| The dogs are not in a position to do it for themselves. They are in other people's care and to assume that is always the best place for them....... well, we have seen that is not always the case. Jenna |
as i have mentioned Al has had no injuires prior to me adopting him and many since, so i guess this isn't the best place for him.... maybe i need to return him..
QUOTE (Redstripe @ Mar 29 2008, 06:05 PM)
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 11:46 AM) |
| The dogs are not in a position to do it for themselves. They are in other people's care and to assume that is always the best place for them....... well, we have seen that is not always the case. Jenna |
as i have mentioned Al has had no injuires prior to me adopting him and many since, so i guess this isn't the best place for him.... maybe i need to return him..
Jenna you have some great points and posts.
The number of injuries at the tracks are actually low if you look at the big picture.
8 dogs in a race X the average # of races a day 12 X approx. # of year round tracks 38 X average # of performances in a week 7= 25536 times the dogs have a chance of being hurt when racing in a week in the US.
That's 1,327,872 starts a year in the US.
8 dogs in a race X the average # of races a day 12 X approx. # of year round tracks 38 X average # of performances in a week 7= 25536 times the dogs have a chance of being hurt when racing in a week in the US.
That's 1,327,872 starts a year in the US.
No, you don't look at the big picture. You don't look at "Al". You don't look at people. You don't look at other dogs. You look at the surface and conditions of each track and the cause and rate of injuries to determine what is or is not necessary for those dogs to continue racing without suffering unnecessary pain. They do this at tracks all the time.
I am utterly amazed that anyone here would have a problem with that.
Jenna
I am utterly amazed that anyone here would have a problem with that.
Jenna
QUOTE (Redstripe @ Mar 29 2008, 05:05 PM)
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 11:46 AM) |
| The dogs are not in a position to do it for themselves. They are in other people's care and to assume that is always the best place for them....... well, we have seen that is not always the case. Jenna |
as i have mentioned Al has had no injuires prior to me adopting him and many since, so i guess this isn't the best place for him.... maybe i need to return him..
Yes, why don't you do that, Redstripe. And make sure to let us know where he ends up.
Jenna
The problem with you AR's is that you get in the way of what the real people who care about greyhounds are trying to do for them.
If you don't like things, quit crying about them and fix it. If not, stay out of the way.
With that said, I'm done wasting my time with all AR's, and putting my time where it helps.
If you don't like things, quit crying about them and fix it. If not, stay out of the way.
With that said, I'm done wasting my time with all AR's, and putting my time where it helps.
Your animated smileys will be sorely missed, mountaingreys.
Jenna
Jenna
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 09:02 PM) |
| No, you don't look at the big picture. You don't look at "Al". You don't look at people. You don't look at other dogs. You look at the surface and conditions of each track and the cause and rate of injuries to determine what is or is not necessary for those dogs to continue racing without suffering unnecessary pain. They do this at tracks all the time. I am utterly amazed that anyone here would have a problem with that. Jenna |
I don't think there is anyone here that wants even one dog to get hurt.
You need to look at the big pic to see everything. Then you can see where dogs die on pet runs, a huge amount of care goes into every pet run for all the groups that I know but you know what? Every once in a while one dies. Should everyone stop hauling pets? Do we try to make sure it never happens, yes. Do we stay up at night worrying about all the things that can go wrong for the 1000 miles on the road with trailers full of pets, yes.
The dogs are born to race. If they have 1,000,000 times a year that they can get hurt and only .02% of the time they get hurt(using the 76 broke leg Dairyland X 38) cmon, that's a good number of dogs that are safe while they're racing. I don't know of many sports that are much safer for dogs.
I would like the number of hurt dogs to be 0 at all tracks, that's never going to happen. Doesn't mean that everyone stops trying to attain that goal. Wisconsin is the most regulated state there is when it come to taking care of the dogs, my sister in law was a track vet in WI for quite a few years and has told me how impressed she was with the way the state keeps an eye on the dogs there.
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 11:46 AM) |
| I have jumped out of airplanes and rock climbed too. I am not saying people should not do those things to keep from being injured. What I am saying is that we decide for ourselves when we take the risks and when we don't. We aren't forced to take them day in and day out. A racing greyhound is much more likely to break a hock on any given day than some guy who goes out and plays baseball one Sunday afternoon. 10, 20, 50 or 100 broken hocks are not "okay" just because people in this world break their legs too. One has nothing to do with the other. If the track surface needs to be looked at, if the injuries are higher than before, even if they remain the same, it is never "okay" or acceptable for any other reason than someone finding out for sure. The dogs are not in a position to do it for themselves. They are in other people's care and to assume that is always the best place for them....... well, we have seen that is not always the case. Jenna |
I agree with you somewhat, Jenna. It is absolutely our responsibility to keep the conditions under which the dogs race (track surface, lure, etc) in good working order. But what do you think is a reasonable number of incidents? And don't say zero, because we all know we don't live in a fairyland. Seriously...like 1%? A half%, or 2-3%? Do you have a number in your head that you think is acceptable? I honestly hope that you do, and don't just respond with a zero. We should absolutely strive for zero, but the fact remains that it isn't possible-but that doesn't mean that greyhounds shouldn't be allowed to run. Whether that be on a track....or in my back yard....They are GOING to run, and occasionally they are GOING to get hurt.
okay, erasing my previous post.
I can't say what number is okay. I am not in that capacity. I am not saying they are too high. I am only addressing the subject of this post and that is a supposedly high increase from prior years I assume. I don't know. I haven't read anything else about it.
If injuries have increased substantially, my point is that it I would hope someone looked at the the reason why. It could be easily fixed. I think they probalby do. I don't agree with the attitude that is does not matter or is not worth looking into at all.
And I am not talking about me or you. The track officials or whoever is responsible. It would be good to know what they have to say.
And I am not saying greyhounds shouldn't run. Just that it should not be under unsafe conditions. I don't know if they are or not. Both possibilities exist.
That's all.
Jenna
I can't say what number is okay. I am not in that capacity. I am not saying they are too high. I am only addressing the subject of this post and that is a supposedly high increase from prior years I assume. I don't know. I haven't read anything else about it.
If injuries have increased substantially, my point is that it I would hope someone looked at the the reason why. It could be easily fixed. I think they probalby do. I don't agree with the attitude that is does not matter or is not worth looking into at all.
And I am not talking about me or you. The track officials or whoever is responsible. It would be good to know what they have to say.
And I am not saying greyhounds shouldn't run. Just that it should not be under unsafe conditions. I don't know if they are or not. Both possibilities exist.
That's all.
Jenna
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 09:34 PM) |
| You know, I'm not sure I know what it is you are getting at Prefontaine. This thread is about injuries at one track, not the state of the world. Do you or do you not agree that track conditions should be as safe as possible for greyhounds to run? AND If injuries were sustantially higher than the previous year at any given track, that it is worth the effort figure out why? Maybe they did figure it out. I don't know. But what you seem to be saying is "It doesn't matter if they did or not." And for Pete's sake, I know injuries happen. Can we just get past that? No one expects them not to happen. Jenna |
Jenna, you do realize that if there was ONE injury last year, and let's say THREE this year, that injuries would be up a whopping 200%!!! You do understand that statistics are what you make of them?
Yes, you actually DO have to have an acceptable rate (with anything), or you might as well give up all together. This is what the entire insurance industry is based on!!
So...what is it for you?
QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 01:00 PM)
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Mar 29 2008, 10:18 AM) |
| I agree. Great post prefontaine. Do you think Jenna means that we all can think and know we could get injured but the greyhounds don't? |
You almost have it.
When Pretontaine rides his bike and falls, he learns something. Either a rock was in the way or the hill was too steep or he wasn't paying attention or whatever. He has the intelligence to understand what went wrong and the free will to either not go back to that particular spot or to move the rock or take the hill slower, so he doesn't fall like that again. No one is making him ride his bike under the same conditions every day for the next two or three years. If he had to do that, his chances of falling many more times would be that much greater.
It is unfair to say that greyhounds should continue to run under conditions that may be causing more injuries without someone at least considering the possibility that risks could be reduced if the conditions were improved. The greyhounds can't do that for themselves like people can. And that is why comparing their injuries with human injuries doesn't make any sense.
Jenna
How about this analogy Jenna-
I have never been in a car accident. I have seen a car accident, I know car accidents exist...but I have still never been in a car accident. I have to go to work sometimes. Yeah, it stinks, but it's part of life. Now since I have never been in a car accident, all I know is to get out there and drive, and do what I have been doing for 15 years. Could the conditions be improved on my particular route to make that route safer? Probably. But that is something that I am unaware of, although I am pretty sure the Department of Motor Vehicles has a record of wrecks on that particular stretch of highway, and have what is an ACCEPTABLE RISK FACTOR that they use to determine whether or not they need to lower speed limits, put in a stop light, etc. But I guess I will just go out again tomorrow like I do everyday, driving the same route, blind to all of this...
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 29 2008, 09:41 PM) |
| Jenna, you do realize that if there was ONE injury last year, and let's say THREE this year, that injuries would be up a whopping 200%!!! You do understand that statistics are what you make of them? Yes, you actually DO have to have an acceptable rate (with anything), or you might as well give up all together. This is what the entire insurance industry is based on!! So...what is it for you? |
Well I would need to know what the statistics were before I could make anything of them.
Do you know what they are at Dairyland?
And what is the acceptable rate?
Jenna
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 29 2008, 09:48 PM)
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 01:00 PM) | ||
You almost have it. When Pretontaine rides his bike and falls, he learns something. Either a rock was in the way or the hill was too steep or he wasn't paying attention or whatever. He has the intelligence to understand what went wrong and the free will to either not go back to that particular spot or to move the rock or take the hill slower, so he doesn't fall like that again. No one is making him ride his bike under the same conditions every day for the next two or three years. If he had to do that, his chances of falling many more times would be that much greater. It is unfair to say that greyhounds should continue to run under conditions that may be causing more injuries without someone at least considering the possibility that risks could be reduced if the conditions were improved. The greyhounds can't do that for themselves like people can. And that is why comparing their injuries with human injuries doesn't make any sense. Jenna |
How about this analogy Jenna-
I have never been in a car accident. I have seen a car accident, I know car accidents exist...but I have still never been in a car accident. I have to go to work sometimes. Yeah, it stinks, but it's part of life. Now since I have never been in a car accident, all I know is to get out there and drive, and do what I have been doing for 15 years. Could the conditions be improved on my particular route to make that route safer? Probably. But that is something that I am unaware of, although I am pretty sure the Department of Motor Vehicles has a record of wrecks on that particular stretch of highway, and have what is an ACCEPTABLE RISK FACTOR that they use to determine whether or not they need to lower speed limits, put in a stop light, etc. But I guess I will just go out again tomorrow like I do everyday, driving the same route, blind to all of this...
The DMV is not responsible for maintaining and repairing public streets or for setting the speed limit. They are kind of like the NGA. Just a place to register your car and get a license to drive.
The city maintains and repairs our streets and fixes traffic lights. They don't wait for xx number of crashes to happen before they send someone out to do the repairs. Our tax dollars pay for this.
I think you might even be able to sue them if you are injured because they didn't do their job. But if it came to that, at least you would know not to travel that route again until they got it fixed.
Jenna
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 29 2008, 09:41 PM) |
| Jenna, you do realize that if there was ONE injury last year, and let's say THREE this year, that injuries would be up a whopping 200%!!! You do understand that statistics are what you make of them? |
Actually, if there was one injury last year and three this year, we would be having a party.
QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 30 2008, 05:56 AM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 29 2008, 09:41 PM) |
| Jenna, you do realize that if there was ONE injury last year, and let's say THREE this year, that injuries would be up a whopping 200%!!! You do understand that statistics are what you make of them? |
Actually, if there was one injury last year and three this year, we would be having a party.
Still don't get the point huh?
QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 30 2008, 05:47 AM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 29 2008, 09:48 PM) | ||
QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 01:00 PM)
You almost have it. When Pretontaine rides his bike and falls, he learns something. Either a rock was in the way or the hill was too steep or he wasn't paying attention or whatever. He has the intelligence to understand what went wrong and the free will to either not go back to that particular spot or to move the rock or take the hill slower, so he doesn't fall like that again. No one is making him ride his bike under the same conditions every day for the next two or three years. If he had to do that, his chances of falling many more times would be that much greater. It is unfair to say that greyhounds should continue to run under conditions that may be causing more injuries without someone at least considering the possibility that risks could be reduced if the conditions were improved. The greyhounds can't do that for themselves like people can. And that is why comparing their injuries with human injuries doesn't make any sense. Jenna |
How about this analogy Jenna-
I have never been in a car accident. I have seen a car accident, I know car accidents exist...but I have still never been in a car accident. I have to go to work sometimes. Yeah, it stinks, but it's part of life. Now since I have never been in a car accident, all I know is to get out there and drive, and do what I have been doing for 15 years. Could the conditions be improved on my particular route to make that route safer? Probably. But that is something that I am unaware of, although I am pretty sure the Department of Motor Vehicles has a record of wrecks on that particular stretch of highway, and have what is an ACCEPTABLE RISK FACTOR that they use to determine whether or not they need to lower speed limits, put in a stop light, etc. But I guess I will just go out again tomorrow like I do everyday, driving the same route, blind to all of this...
The DMV is not responsible for maintaining and repairing public streets or for setting the speed limit. They are kind of like the NGA. Just a place to register your car and get a license to drive.
The city maintains and repairs our streets and fixes traffic lights. They don't wait for xx number of crashes to happen before they send someone out to do the repairs. Our tax dollars pay for this.
I think you might even be able to sue them if you are injured because they didn't do their job. But if it came to that, at least you would know not to travel that route again until they got it fixed.
Jenna
Eh, Department of Transportation...you knew what I meant.
Here's a little link to a section of their website for you.
2008 DOT budget
One interesting little tidbit I found was that she states that of the $67 billion slated for transportation needs in 2008, only $20 billion is slated for safety. Now how do we, as citizens, know if 20 bil. is the right amount? We don't. We are relying on the federal gov't (I just picked the feds, you can also do this for your particular state) to make that assessment for us (and yes, I know that they don't fix city streets, but they do fix every US street, and there are thousands of them). And I am sure you are going to say that it is pretty good that they spend 30% of their budget on safety. But once again, "safety" encompasses a lot of things in road construction and maintenance, from engineers for bridge construction to patching pot holes. It doesn't mean safety in the traditional sense, like the money is all going to guardrails and potholes. But anyway, the point is, when they do anything such as put in a stoplight, they have cameras, counter-strips, speed radars, etc. set up to determine traffic flow, volume, etc. Now when they get those numbers together, they put them into an equation to see if a stoplight is needed or not. Let's say they decide they don't need one...and then you had a wreck there...you are going to be jumping up and down yelling about the fact that there wasn't a light at that location. That is the ACCEPTABLE RISK FACTOR. Make a little more sense, now?
And notice in the original post I actually said "PUT IN STOPLIGHT", not "REPAIR STOPLIGHTS". Big difference.
There was a "Channel 9 Action" report about 6 months ago on Charlotte's potholes. You know the type-where they go around the city and point the finger at different situations that they feel are injustices, etc. Anyway, Charlotte is growing like 15% year right now, and the DOT can't keep up with pothole maintenance. They interviewed a couple people that had had flat tires, etc. Anyway, I don't rememeber the EXACT numbers (from a report on potholes from 6 months ago), but it was in the neighborhood of 30,000 reported incidents, 18,000 people sued for repair costs, and something in the neighborhood of 100 people were compensated for their damage. So while you may think you can sue over something like that....I think betting on Greyhound Races is a MUCH safer investment!
And you say that I may now know to take a different route...Jenna, what if in this accident that I had I was killed? Hard for me to take a different route now, isn't it?
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 09:34 PM) |
| okay, erasing my previous post. I can't say what number is okay. I am not in that capacity. I am not saying they are too high. I am only addressing the subject of this post and that is a supposedly high increase from prior years I assume. I don't know. I haven't read anything else about it. If injuries have increased substantially, my point is that it I would hope someone looked at the the reason why. It could be easily fixed. I think they probalby do. I don't agree with the attitude that is does not matter or is not worth looking into at all. And I am not talking about me or you. The track officials or whoever is responsible. It would be good to know what they have to say. And I am not saying greyhounds shouldn't run. Just that it should not be under unsafe conditions. I don't know if they are or not. Both possibilities exist. That's all. Jenna |
Nice post Jenna. I pretty much agree with you. We don't know what is a normal injury rate, and what we also don't know is while injuries went up last year, what happened in all the previous years. They could have been on a steady decline, and this was a sharp increase due to, say, a particular farmer sending dogs there just a tad too early. We just don't know.
But that is the joy of the media...they tell you what fits & supports their story, and nothing else.
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 30 2008, 07:40 AM) |
| But that is the joy of the media...they tell you what fits & supports their story, and nothing else. |
They tell someone else's story. Whether it is accurate or not, is up to us to figure out. I keep an open mind to both sides. Cheryl's comments were interesting as they showed the other side of the coin using real information. I learned a lot more from that than any of the discussion that followed.
Jenna
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 28 2008, 09:22 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 28 2008, 04:29 PM) | ||||
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 08:05 PM)
Care to share any statistics to support this statement? And please add how many of the injured participants are denied treatment and put to sleep. |
Oops, forgot one. Why don't YOU tell US exactly HOW MANY greyhounds are denied care and put to sleep? You get to work on that, and I will take care of the injury rate on the 18+ sports I mentioned...
Let's go one-for-one and we can see who runs out of names first.
I'll start: Petey died after Gene Wayne King(who later plead no contest to the animal cruelty charge) denied him medical care in Daytona.
I can't wait to see the name of a participant in any of the 18 sports you mentioned who was left untreated in a crate for over 24 hours with muscle and bone exposed and died as a result of the injuries.
Do you honestly think I condone animal cruelty? Are you really that thick headed? Greyhound racing has a lot more to offer than what a few sub-human, worthless pieces of crap do to a small percentage of the dogs. And NO, I am not trivializing the death of even one greyhound. But what you forget is that we live in an imperfect world, and there isn't a single activity on earth that is without it's flaws.
Okay, since you want to go head to head with me on something (for some unknown reason), how about this-you name every single incident where a racing greyhound was mistreated, and I will name every single time a pet greyhound has had to be rescued from an adopters home. Bet they would come out about the same, because there are scumbags in all walks of life. (And no, I am not really going to start rehashing animal cruelty cases)
Prefontaine:
I named two dogs denied treament, one of which died as a result. Are you going to name the participant in any of your 18+ sports that suffered the same fate or not?
Of course I already know you can't name a single participant while I can name several more in greyhound racing that suffered and died a needless death. Of course you can attempt to change the subject but once again..... you are a bag of hot air young man and everyone here knows it.
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 31 2008, 06:19 PM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 28 2008, 09:22 PM) | ||||||
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 28 2008, 04:29 PM)
Oops, forgot one. Why don't YOU tell US exactly HOW MANY greyhounds are denied care and put to sleep? You get to work on that, and I will take care of the injury rate on the 18+ sports I mentioned... |
Let's go one-for-one and we can see who runs out of names first.
I'll start: Petey died after Gene Wayne King(who later plead no contest to the animal cruelty charge) denied him medical care in Daytona.
I can't wait to see the name of a participant in any of the 18 sports you mentioned who was left untreated in a crate for over 24 hours with muscle and bone exposed and died as a result of the injuries.
Do you honestly think I condone animal cruelty? Are you really that thick headed? Greyhound racing has a lot more to offer than what a few sub-human, worthless pieces of crap do to a small percentage of the dogs. And NO, I am not trivializing the death of even one greyhound. But what you forget is that we live in an imperfect world, and there isn't a single activity on earth that is without it's flaws.
Okay, since you want to go head to head with me on something (for some unknown reason), how about this-you name every single incident where a racing greyhound was mistreated, and I will name every single time a pet greyhound has had to be rescued from an adopters home. Bet they would come out about the same, because there are scumbags in all walks of life. (And no, I am not really going to start rehashing animal cruelty cases)
Prefontaine:
I named two dogs denied treament, one of which died as a result. Are you going to name the participant in any of your 18+ sports that suffered the same fate or not?
Of course I already know you can't name a single participant while I can name several more in greyhound racing that suffered and died a needless death. Of course you can attempt to change the subject but once again..... you are a bag of hot air young man and everyone here knows it.
Figures you can't make it through a single post without attempting to insult someone. Ask me again without the insults, and I will respond. Everyone else on this forum continually treats each other with at least some degree of respect (yes, even Jenna and I
), and until you can do the same for me, I won't answer any of your questions or rebut any of your claims. Now...want to try it again?
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 31 2008, 06:31 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 31 2008, 06:19 PM) | ||||||
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 28 2008, 09:22 PM)
Oops, forgot one. Why don't YOU tell US exactly HOW MANY greyhounds are denied care and put to sleep? You get to work on that, and I will take care of the injury rate on the 18+ sports I mentioned... |
Let's go one-for-one and we can see who runs out of names first.
I'll start: Petey died after Gene Wayne King(who later plead no contest to the animal cruelty charge) denied him medical care in Daytona.
I can't wait to see the name of a participant in any of the 18 sports you mentioned who was left untreated in a crate for over 24 hours with muscle and bone exposed and died as a result of the injuries.
Do you honestly think I condone animal cruelty? Are you really that thick headed? Greyhound racing has a lot more to offer than what a few sub-human, worthless pieces of crap do to a small percentage of the dogs. And NO, I am not trivializing the death of even one greyhound. But what you forget is that we live in an imperfect world, and there isn't a single activity on earth that is without it's flaws.
Okay, since you want to go head to head with me on something (for some unknown reason), how about this-you name every single incident where a racing greyhound was mistreated, and I will name every single time a pet greyhound has had to be rescued from an adopters home. Bet they would come out about the same, because there are scumbags in all walks of life. (And no, I am not really going to start rehashing animal cruelty cases)
Prefontaine:
I named two dogs denied treament, one of which died as a result. Are you going to name the participant in any of your 18+ sports that suffered the same fate or not?
Of course I already know you can't name a single participant while I can name several more in greyhound racing that suffered and died a needless death. Of course you can attempt to change the subject but once again..... you are a bag of hot air young man and everyone here knows it.
Figures you can't make it through a single post without attempting to insult someone. Ask me again without the insults, and I will respond. Everyone else on this forum continually treats each other with at least some degree of respect (yes, even Jenna and I
), and until you can do the same for me, I won't answer any of your questions or rebut any of your claims. Now...want to try it again? Bob, weave and avoid the subject. Hot air Chris. That's the name of your game.
You won't reply because you can't. Period.
If that what you think it is, that's fine with me. You made two posts since I did, one contained yet another personal insult, and the second still didn't ask me without the insult. Sorry bud, three strikes and you're out. Do you really think I don't have an answer for you??
Chris: I said earlier that I didn't expect a reply from you and you countered saying you never backed off from a debate. But now that you are exposed for lacking facts you first try and change the subject then pull up your tail and hide. I knew that was your style and you've confirmed it. Thank you.
You are full of hot air and lack and facts to back up you bullshit, palin and simple. And everyone here knows it.
You are full of hot air and lack and facts to back up you bullshit, palin and simple. And everyone here knows it.
Nope, what I said was that I would respond if you asked me WITHOUT a personal insult. And you simply can't do it. Nice job. You have a terrific way of turning an excellent thread into almost a page of BS and insults. Now THAT gets a lot of greyhounds adopted.
The only Bs is this thread are your posts.
Bob, weave and aviod the topic.
HOT AIR.
Bob, weave and aviod the topic.
HOT AIR.
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 28 2008, 04:29 PM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 08:05 PM) | ||||
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 24 2008, 06:08 PM)
Care to share any statistics to support this statement? And please add how many of the injured participants are denied treatment and put to sleep. |
Oops, forgot one. Why don't YOU tell US exactly HOW MANY greyhounds are denied care and put to sleep? You get to work on that, and I will take care of the injury rate on the 18+ sports I mentioned...
Let's go one-for-one and we can see who runs out of names first.
I'll start: Petey died after Gene Wayne King(who later plead no contest to the animal cruelty charge) denied him medical care in Daytona.
I can't wait to see the name of a participant in any of the 18 sports you mentioned who was left untreated in a crate for over 24 hours with muscle and bone exposed and died as a result of the injuries.
For those just joining in, here;s the post Chris is refusing to answer.
Just can't do it can you? Just can't ask a question without an insult, huh?
Being exposed for a bag of hot air is killing you and that's OK. Swallow your pride and you'll do a lot more for adoption than you ever dreamed.
Good luck Chris, hang in there and move some dogs, visit some tracks, kennels and farms and then come back wih some facts. We appreciate your efforts.
Good luck Chris, hang in there and move some dogs, visit some tracks, kennels and farms and then come back wih some facts. We appreciate your efforts.
I see your Copy and Paste applications are still in working order. Refer to the other thread that you have ruined for the reply.
Let's keep it on the topic. No personal attacks allowed or topic will be closed. The discussion was going good til the attacks started.
Thanks
greydaddy
Thanks
greydaddy
Greydaddy: I am interested in keeping this factual. chris says injurins are a part of every sport and I simply pointed out greyhound racing is different as it is the only one where the participants have been denied care. He asked for the statistics and he'd provide his. I've named two dogs and am interested in hearing one from any of his 18+ spots he'd like to compare to racing.
All I'm trying to point out is his arguement is baseless. Unless he can name someone. of course.
All I'm trying to point out is his arguement is baseless. Unless he can name someone. of course.
This is my last post in this thread. Fastrunner, that isn't all you wanted. Let's say I had answered your last question...your next post directed at me would have been yet another insult. You have proven that you cannot debate me without personal attacks, and I don't play that way. Everyone on this forum knows that, and you can't prove otherwise.
Chris:
I named a dog who was denied care for over 24 hours in a crate in a kennel.
What is the name of the injured participant in any of the 18+ sports you listed?
We're waiting.
I named a dog who was denied care for over 24 hours in a crate in a kennel.
What is the name of the injured participant in any of the 18+ sports you listed?
We're waiting.
This is one reason why some boards don't allow this type of topic... someone starts throwing insults... it accomplishes nothing and mostly the reason for debates is to get your point across and even get someone who doesn't agree with to agree with you but how do you expect people to respect your opinion and listen to you when you can't respect others and talk in a polite manner...
Too bad this thread got turned into this. There was probably some reasons for the tracks racing surface being neglected. I don't keep up with Dairyland much but I did see where they have been tring to get slots. That tells me they are in financial trouble. I may be wrong though.
As a dog owner I watch my trainer walk the track before the racing starts for the day or evening to determine the condition. Also had trainers at 2 other tracks do the same. I have had a trainer scratch the dogs because of the track condition. Most times it was due to the weather. Either way to wet or way to dry. Some tracks are better at track maintenance and that is mostly due to the skill level of the maintainer. Some is just due to the track owner not wanting to spend the money. Equipment for that is expensive and takes a lot of skill to keep the surface in top shape, especially when the weather conditions change. Dairyland does have extremes in the weather.
As a dog owner I watch my trainer walk the track before the racing starts for the day or evening to determine the condition. Also had trainers at 2 other tracks do the same. I have had a trainer scratch the dogs because of the track condition. Most times it was due to the weather. Either way to wet or way to dry. Some tracks are better at track maintenance and that is mostly due to the skill level of the maintainer. Some is just due to the track owner not wanting to spend the money. Equipment for that is expensive and takes a lot of skill to keep the surface in top shape, especially when the weather conditions change. Dairyland does have extremes in the weather.