We need you all to sign the petition.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/256690408
Full Version: End Greyhound Racing
wow even if i was AR i wouldn't put my name on that petition.. lots of ignorant statements on there by people who have signed
Wouldn't sign that piece of crap if it was the last thing I ever did.
Greyhounds are better off racing, than what would happen to them if racing stopped.
Greyhounds are better off racing, than what would happen to them if racing stopped.
I won't sign it but thanks for posting for people who may want to.
Wow, some of those comments were out there.
Can't sign it.
Can't sign it.
Not signing it either
Oh, I forgot 
everyone here is PR.
Thanks for letting me post it and not deleting.
everyone here is PR. Thanks for letting me post it and not deleting.
I have some questions if Greyhound Racing is ended
What is going to happen to all the greyhounds that are racing?
What is going to happen to all the greyhounds in training:
What is going to happen to all the pups waiting to go into training
What is going to happen to all the pups just born?
What is going to happen to the pups who are yet to be born of pregnant bitches?
What is going to happen to all these brood moms?
What is going to happen to all the greyhounds that are racing?
What is going to happen to all the greyhounds in training:
What is going to happen to all the pups waiting to go into training
What is going to happen to all the pups just born?
What is going to happen to the pups who are yet to be born of pregnant bitches?
What is going to happen to all these brood moms?
| QUOTE (allforgreys @ Mar 20 2008, 05:55 PM) |
| Oh, I forgot everyone here is PR. Thanks for letting me post it and not deleting. |
We value all points of view here.
| QUOTE (Beryl @ Mar 20 2008, 06:50 PM) |
| I have some questions if Greyhound Racing is ended What is going to happen to all the greyhounds that are racing? What is going to happen to all the greyhounds in training: What is going to happen to all the pups waiting to go into training What is going to happen to all the pups just born? What is going to happen to the pups who are yet to be born of pregnant bitches? What is going to happen to all these brood moms? |
Good questions Beryl
Thank you D2P
In all of my questions How many greyhounds are involved if racing is shut down
Who will take care of all these greyhounds?
Will they all live?
Who will take care of all these greyhounds?
Will they all live?
| QUOTE (Beryl @ Mar 20 2008, 07:40 PM) |
| Who will take care of all these greyhounds? |
The same people who will get them anyway. Those dogs are going to need homes whether racing ends or not.
I did not sign the petition because it is not likely that President Bush will pound his gavel and end greyhound racing nationwide. I don't think he even has a gavel, does he?
If racing was going to end entirely, it would still have to happen within each state. No one could ever manage to coordinate an effort that would encompass every racing state and shut all the tracks down at one time. * It * will * never * happen * .
So there is no need to worry about 40 thousand homeless greyhounds. Adoption groups will continue to take them as usual and the rest will be destroyed as they always have been.
Greyhound racing is already ending. It has been on the decline for several years. Unless the trend changes, it will continue until the day comes that no more tracks exist. But we will be long gone way before that time.
There is no point in blaming the AR's for greyhound racing's eventual demise. They can't claim the credit now. We are the ones who are doing it. We are the patrons missing from their stands. We are choosing other forms of gambling instead. "We", meaning the collective majority of people who keep gambling venues alive. If you really want to help them out, get your rear ends over there and place some bets.
If you are still concerned about the greyhounds, why not ask their breeders and owners what they will do with their dogs if their business ends? It happens to other businesses. Why should things be any different for them?
In any event, I am sure that most greyhound owners have already given this thought and will do whatever it takes to keep their dogs safe, as always.
Jenna
| QUOTE (allforgreys @ Mar 20 2008, 05:55 PM) |
| Oh, I forgot everyone here is PR. Thanks for letting me post it and not deleting. |
there are a few that aren't PR! but we all respect everyone (whether we disagree on some things or everything!)
you should have known this post wouldn't have gotten deleted
QUOTE (Redstripe @ Mar 21 2008, 09:36 AM)
| QUOTE (allforgreys @ Mar 20 2008, 05:55 PM) |
| Oh, I forgot everyone here is PR. Thanks for letting me post it and not deleting. |
there are a few that aren't PR! but we all respect everyone (whether we disagree on some things or everything!)
you should have known this post wouldn't have gotten deleted
NOT DELETED HERE BUT ON OTHER MESSAGE BOARDS THAT IS ANOTHER STORY
QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 21 2008, 01:37 AM)
| QUOTE (Beryl @ Mar 20 2008, 07:40 PM) |
| Who will take care of all these greyhounds? |
So there is no need to worry about 40 thousand homeless greyhounds. Adoption groups will continue to take them as usual and the rest will be destroyed as they always have been.
You really think that's what'll happen? That's a pretty sanitized view. 40,000 dogs. 40,000 dogs that kennels have invested tens of thousands of dollars in they're just going to give away to be adopted or humanely euthanized. 'Cause that's what happens now when a kennel goes under, isn't it? Owners don't sell any of their dogs, intact, to coyote hunters, back yard breeders, someone else who thinks they can make a go of it, or just someone interested in and intact GH, do they? No, that never happens. All those GH mixes we see on PetFinder and up here, mixed with our huskies, just must be AKC mixes (you know how those AKC people let their dogs breed willy nilly with anything).
You're right that GH racing will end because the people will stop attending, but that's not because racing isn't exciting and fun to watch. It is. People will stop attending because of the stigma attached to GH racing, and that is the fault of the AR campaigns.
Instead of putting all this effort into ending racing, why isn't all this energy going towards improving the conditions of the dogs? I've never really understood this. I support competitive dog racing, but there are aspects of it that I don't like. I don't particularly like the fact that the dogs are crated for the majority of the day. Some of the mushers up here have switched from picketing their dogs in dog lots to housing them in box stall type kennels. This was accomplished, not by trying to end mushing as a competitive sport, but by educating mushers that happier, healthier dogs mean faster, winning dogs.
I'll admit, I don't know a whole lot about GH racing. I know more about sled dog racing, and what happens up here in Alaska. There's still a lot of really bad things that go on in the mushing world and it's really hard to change years and years of "it's how it's always been done," but that doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and say, "Well, it should end" just because it's hard work to change it.
So, I really would like someone to explain to me why GH racing should end rather than overall improvements be made.
Well said.
QUOTE (simile @ Mar 21 2008, 10:42 AM)
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 21 2008, 01:37 AM) | ||
So there is no need to worry about 40 thousand homeless greyhounds. Adoption groups will continue to take them as usual and the rest will be destroyed as they always have been. |
You really think that's what'll happen? That's a pretty sanitized view. 40,000 dogs. 40,000 dogs that kennels have invested tens of thousands of dollars in they're just going to give away to be adopted or humanely euthanized. 'Cause that's what happens now when a kennel goes under, isn't it? Owners don't sell any of their dogs, intact, to coyote hunters, back yard breeders, someone else who thinks they can make a go of it, or just someone interested in and intact GH, do they? No, that never happens. All those GH mixes we see on PetFinder and up here, mixed with our huskies, just must be AKC mixes (you know how those AKC people let their dogs breed willy nilly with anything).
You're right that GH racing will end because the people will stop attending, but that's not because racing isn't exciting and fun to watch. It is. People will stop attending because of the stigma attached to GH racing, and that is the fault of the AR campaigns.
Instead of putting all this effort into ending racing, why isn't all this energy going towards improving the conditions of the dogs? I've never really understood this. I support competitive dog racing, but there are aspects of it that I don't like. I don't particularly like the fact that the dogs are crated for the majority of the day. Some of the mushers up here have switched from picketing their dogs in dog lots to housing them in box stall type kennels. This was accomplished, not by trying to end mushing as a competitive sport, but by educating mushers that happier, healthier dogs mean faster, winning dogs.
I'll admit, I don't know a whole lot about GH racing. I know more about sled dog racing, and what happens up here in Alaska. There's still a lot of really bad things that go on in the mushing world and it's really hard to change years and years of "it's how it's always been done," but that doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and say, "Well, it should end" just because it's hard work to change it.
So, I really would like someone to explain to me why GH racing should end rather than overall improvements be made.
| QUOTE (simile @ Mar 21 2008, 10:42 AM) |
| You really think that's what'll happen? That's a pretty sanitized view. 40,000 dogs. 40,000 dogs that kennels have invested tens of thousands of dollars in they're just going to give away to be adopted or humanely euthanized. 'Cause that's what happens now when a kennel goes under, isn't it? Owners don't sell any of their dogs, intact, to coyote hunters, back yard breeders, someone else who thinks they can make a go of it, or just someone interested in and intact GH, do they? No, that never happens. All those GH mixes we see on PetFinder and up here, mixed with our huskies, just must be AKC mixes (you know how those AKC people let their dogs breed willy nilly with anything). |
What I am trying to explain to you is that you are seeing the end of racing now. Kennels have already closed and most of their dogs were (hopefully) given to groups. This is going to continue happening for a very long time..... little by little. What, exactly, do you think they should do with their dogs? Hold them hostage?
There may always be a certain number of tracks in some states. Other states may ban the sport. It's hard to tell what will eventually come to be in the whole United States but it can't happen all at once because each state must go through the process and it takes time.
The demand for adopted greyhounds is going to decrease with breeding going down because we won't be out there busting our butts, trying to get more people to take them. Those mixes you see in the pound and the coyote dogs are a result of the past and present overpopulation of retired greys. They are too easy for anyone to get straight off the track. Greyhounds don't need to be easy to get. They don't need to be cheap! They don't need to live 10 or 15 to a home. If someone wants a good dog, they should have to pay a good price. It's that way with other breeds.
While the AR's continue their fight, tracks are going under anyway because people have more choices for gambling and they are picking them instead. They aren't just going home because they don't like what they hear about greyhound racing. They are staying there and putting their money in slot machines. You can't blame the AR's for that.
Have you ever gambled? Think about it. How much did you spend on the dogs?
Jenna
I don't think Greyhound Racing is ending. The tracks that don't work to do a great job with the racing will probably die off but the strong tracks will continue to grow and do well.
I have been to several tracks, betted and I have seen lots of people betting.
Have you been to a track for yourself to see how things work and have you ever betted on the racers.
JMO
I have been to several tracks, betted and I have seen lots of people betting.
Have you been to a track for yourself to see how things work and have you ever betted on the racers.
JMO
Even if greyhound racing stopped, there will always be some jerks out that will backyard breed them, and there will always be dogs for coyote hunting. Just because of the backyard breeding, and people wanting greyhounds, rescue groups will always have to be there at the pounds to rescue them from being put to sleep.
When a kennel closes, there is a mad scramble to get as many dogs out as the can. They all aren't always saved. But either are the dogs at the pound. The AR people aren't helping anything, just making matters worse, and everyone knows it.
Greyhound racing is far from over.
When a kennel closes, there is a mad scramble to get as many dogs out as the can. They all aren't always saved. But either are the dogs at the pound. The AR people aren't helping anything, just making matters worse, and everyone knows it.
Greyhound racing is far from over.
| QUOTE (mountain4greys @ Mar 21 2008, 05:06 PM) |
| Even if greyhound racing stopped, there will always be some jerks out that will backyard breed them, and there will always be dogs for coyote hunting. Just because of the backyard breeding, and people wanting greyhounds, rescue groups will always have to be there at the pounds to rescue them from being put to sleep. |
Our Hershey was rescued out of a Kill Shelter and we do believe she was Back Yard Breeding
And everybody, especially the AR's, that once greyhound racing ends, all will be happy in the greyhound kingdom. Sad truth is, it won't. Then every Tom, Dick, and Harry can get a greyhound, no home visit, and I believe greyhound rescue won't slow down.
I also believe the greyhounds won't ever win, but they are so much better off racing than in the hand of idiot back yard breeders.
Do I believe things should be better for them at the track? Sure. But things have gotten a lot better over the years.
I also believe the greyhounds won't ever win, but they are so much better off racing than in the hand of idiot back yard breeders.
Do I believe things should be better for them at the track? Sure. But things have gotten a lot better over the years.
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 21 2008, 11:57 AM) |
| ... most of their dogs were (hopefully) given to groups. Those mixes you see in the pound and the coyote dogs are a result of the past and present overpopulation of retired greys. While the AR's continue their fight, tracks are going under anyway because people have more choices for gambling and they are picking them instead. Have you ever gambled? Think about it. How much did you spend on the dogs? Jenna |
You "hope" those dogs go/went to groups. But groups only see the final numbers available for adoption after the owners have sold or traded or done whatever with their dogs. The mixes and such will continue - retirement comes awful early for a bunch of dogs when their kennel shuts down.
You're right, there are more choices for gambling, and yes, I do gamble. Whenever I go to Seattle during the summer, I spend at least one day at Emerald Downs, the horse track. I haven't been to a state that has a dog track in a few years, but the next time I'm in Arizona, I'll probably go.
And you're right, the decline in attendance can't be put solely on the shoulders of AR campaigns. I go to Washington state and see all kinds of advertising for horse racing, and when I attend the races, the stands are always full. I've never seen any advertising for dog racing when I've been in Arizona. I didn't even know there were dog tracks there until I became involved with GHs. I don't know what it's like around the rest of the country, but if AZ is any example, track management is piss poor in selling the event (at least they were a couple years ago).
But the AR campaigns certainly don't help. I know if I had a retired Thoroughbred instead of a retired GH I wouldn't get comments like, "Oh, you rescued him? He must have had a terrible life." "Does he trust people. I hear they aren't very well socialized." "Did they beat him - that's what those scars are from, aren't they?" and on, and on, and on. Most of the people asking these questions wouldn't hesitate to go to a horse race - heck, they watch the Derby on tv - but they wouldn't be caught dead at a dog track because of what they've heard through AR campaigns.
I still am honestly curious why all this energy is being put into banning racing rather than improving conditions.
| QUOTE (Beryl @ Mar 21 2008, 01:53 PM) |
| So, I really would like someone to explain to me why GH racing should end rather than overall improvements be made. |
No one can agree on what those improvements should/would be or if they are even necessary.
For instance, you don't think the greys should be crated all day. I assume that would be one of the areas you expect to improve. Well, don't hold your breath. You will be told you are wrong and given the reasons why. You may or may not agree with those reasons but that particular aspect of racing will always remain the same.
So we have people with as many different opinions as you can imagine and those who are least likely to see it the racing way, feel the sport should come to an end.
But really, it isn't the conditions that cause people to dislike racing as much as it is the fact that the dogs are killed. The way people see it, is if they can kill them, they are just as likely to do any other horrid thing they hear about.
Those are not my opinions, by the way. But it seems pretty obvious that they are the opinions of many, many others. It's a hard one to fight.
Jenna
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Mar 21 2008, 03:51 PM) |
| Have you been to a track for yourself to see how things work and have you ever betted on the racers. JMO |
Yes, I have been to tracks but never placed a bet. The odds just weren't in my favor.
Jenn
Don't think it will in my lifetime.
Hey guys! Been awhile since I have posted-been way busier than anyone needs to be! Anyway, I am trying to catch up now....
| QUOTE |
| There may always be a certain number of tracks in some states. Other states may ban the sport. It's hard to tell what will eventually come to be in the whole United States but it can't happen all at once because each state must go through the process and it takes time. |
Jenna, you do know that Greyhound Racing has NEVER been banned in an active racing state, don't you?
QUOTE
The demand for adopted greyhounds is going to decrease with breeding going down because we won't be out there busting our butts, trying to get more people to take them.
Hey, you may quit advocating for adopting retired Racers, but the rest of us won't. ABesides the obvious-adopting dogs-our kennel has a mortgage and staff that still must be paid, so whether or not you feel it is necessary to push adoptions, we still WILL. Bills to pay are a great motivator!
Now why in the world would you think that things can never change, Jenna? Are we still at 5% adoption like we were 30 years ago?? Are the dogs on the farms in OK and KS destroyed at the end of their breeding careers like they were 10 years ago? No, because of people like Teddy Palmer CHANGED a lot of minds, and shifted their view of the dogs. I have a feeling Teddy was told no (and why it won't work) a few times too. And besides, we are almost the only country in the world that does house them in kennels, though there is nothing wrong with either way.
Hey, you may quit advocating for adopting retired Racers, but the rest of us won't. ABesides the obvious-adopting dogs-our kennel has a mortgage and staff that still must be paid, so whether or not you feel it is necessary to push adoptions, we still WILL. Bills to pay are a great motivator!
| QUOTE |
| For instance, you don't think the greys should be crated all day. I assume that would be one of the areas you expect to improve. Well, don't hold your breath. You will be told you are wrong and given the reasons why. You may or may not agree with those reasons but that particular aspect of racing will always remain the same. |
Now why in the world would you think that things can never change, Jenna? Are we still at 5% adoption like we were 30 years ago?? Are the dogs on the farms in OK and KS destroyed at the end of their breeding careers like they were 10 years ago? No, because of people like Teddy Palmer CHANGED a lot of minds, and shifted their view of the dogs. I have a feeling Teddy was told no (and why it won't work) a few times too. And besides, we are almost the only country in the world that does house them in kennels, though there is nothing wrong with either way.
Prefontaine:
Racing has been banned in 7 states that knew they didn't want any part of what it had to offer.
In several other sates it has either been regulated out of business of about to be becasue of the false and empty promises of the business, among other things.
How is it your group can run an adoption program that pays a mortgage and your staff? Also, you once claimed that there is a shrtage of dogs north of Florida and your group doesn't turn away ANY dogs needing help. Do you stand by this claim too? If so, I know 10+ tracks in FL that will happily send you a few hundred dogs next month. and each month thereafter. That should satisfy your mortgage and even pay your staff a huge bonus.
Teddy has certainly opened avenues for dogs in the non-racing states. Give her a call and ask her how many dogs she moves PER month and how many need to be moved. You seem to claim she has acheived a 100% adption rate, after you talk with her please let us know what she tells you is the actual percentage of dogs saved.
Now I don't expect a reply from you because you lack any facts to back up your statements, but at least everyone will know you are full of hot air.
Racing has been banned in 7 states that knew they didn't want any part of what it had to offer.
In several other sates it has either been regulated out of business of about to be becasue of the false and empty promises of the business, among other things.
How is it your group can run an adoption program that pays a mortgage and your staff? Also, you once claimed that there is a shrtage of dogs north of Florida and your group doesn't turn away ANY dogs needing help. Do you stand by this claim too? If so, I know 10+ tracks in FL that will happily send you a few hundred dogs next month. and each month thereafter. That should satisfy your mortgage and even pay your staff a huge bonus.
Teddy has certainly opened avenues for dogs in the non-racing states. Give her a call and ask her how many dogs she moves PER month and how many need to be moved. You seem to claim she has acheived a 100% adption rate, after you talk with her please let us know what she tells you is the actual percentage of dogs saved.
Now I don't expect a reply from you because you lack any facts to back up your statements, but at least everyone will know you are full of hot air.
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 24 2008, 06:29 PM)
Prefontaine:
Racing has been banned in 7 states that knew they didn't want any part of what it had to offer.
In several other sates it has either been regulated out of business of about to be becasue of the false and empty promises of the business, among other things.
How is it your group can run an adoption program that pays a mortgage and your staff? Also, you once claimed that there is a shrtage of dogs north of Florida and your group doesn't turn away ANY dogs needing help. Do you stand by this claim too? If so, I know 10+ tracks in FL that will happily send you a few hundred dogs next month. and each month thereafter. That should satisfy your mortgage and even pay your staff a huge bonus.
Teddy has certainly opened avenues for dogs in the non-racing states. Give her a call and ask her how many dogs she moves PER month and how many need to be moved. You seem to claim she has acheived a 100% adption rate, after you talk with her please let us know what she tells you is the actual percentage of dogs saved.
Now I don't expect a reply from you because you lack any facts to back up your statements, but at least everyone will know you are full of hot air.
Don't expect a response from me?? Point to even ONE time when I have backed down from a debate...yeah, didn't think so...
Now, on to your erroneous post.
Firsst, your claim regarding states banning racing because it "didn't want any part of what it had to offer."
Seven states have banned greyhound racing, and every one of them had a vested interest-mostly, they didn't want the competition. Greyhound Racing is illegal in KY...hmmm, wonder why? Perhaps becuase of the horse racing industry? Greyhound Racing is illegal in North Carolina...funny thing is, it was banned just ONE YEAR before the state lottery was instituted. Coincidence? Yeah, I bet.
Regarding the kennel-yes, we have a mortgage AND a piad staff member. Check out the website f you want: PRH Website
We can house between 60 and 72 dogs (depending on how the kennel is set up), and draw adopters from a 200 mile radius. We have support from everyone from the racing owners, to dog food companies, to individuals like Redstripe and me. If we stop adopting out dogs, we no longer have a purpose.
You are wrong regarding my supposedly stating there IS a shortage of dogs "north of Florida." I said that if things continued at the rate they were at, there would soon be a shortage of dogs in the NORTH. We are already moving dogs to 4 different groups well above us-do you think that they would bother getting dogs from us if there was a vast quantity of them just next door?
Regarding Teddy...WHEN and WHERE did I "seem to claim" that she has reached 100% adoption? Here, let me quote myself from a little earlier, just to refresh your memory of what I said:
What I said, exactly, was that Teddy changed "a lot" of minds. And it is quite obvious that you missed the whole point of the post.
Oh, and your claim that I am just full of hot air? Ooh, you so got me.....
Racing has been banned in 7 states that knew they didn't want any part of what it had to offer.
In several other sates it has either been regulated out of business of about to be becasue of the false and empty promises of the business, among other things.
How is it your group can run an adoption program that pays a mortgage and your staff? Also, you once claimed that there is a shrtage of dogs north of Florida and your group doesn't turn away ANY dogs needing help. Do you stand by this claim too? If so, I know 10+ tracks in FL that will happily send you a few hundred dogs next month. and each month thereafter. That should satisfy your mortgage and even pay your staff a huge bonus.
Teddy has certainly opened avenues for dogs in the non-racing states. Give her a call and ask her how many dogs she moves PER month and how many need to be moved. You seem to claim she has acheived a 100% adption rate, after you talk with her please let us know what she tells you is the actual percentage of dogs saved.
Now I don't expect a reply from you because you lack any facts to back up your statements, but at least everyone will know you are full of hot air.
Don't expect a response from me?? Point to even ONE time when I have backed down from a debate...yeah, didn't think so...
Now, on to your erroneous post.
Firsst, your claim regarding states banning racing because it "didn't want any part of what it had to offer."
Seven states have banned greyhound racing, and every one of them had a vested interest-mostly, they didn't want the competition. Greyhound Racing is illegal in KY...hmmm, wonder why? Perhaps becuase of the horse racing industry? Greyhound Racing is illegal in North Carolina...funny thing is, it was banned just ONE YEAR before the state lottery was instituted. Coincidence? Yeah, I bet.
Regarding the kennel-yes, we have a mortgage AND a piad staff member. Check out the website f you want: PRH Website
We can house between 60 and 72 dogs (depending on how the kennel is set up), and draw adopters from a 200 mile radius. We have support from everyone from the racing owners, to dog food companies, to individuals like Redstripe and me. If we stop adopting out dogs, we no longer have a purpose.
You are wrong regarding my supposedly stating there IS a shortage of dogs "north of Florida." I said that if things continued at the rate they were at, there would soon be a shortage of dogs in the NORTH. We are already moving dogs to 4 different groups well above us-do you think that they would bother getting dogs from us if there was a vast quantity of them just next door?
Regarding Teddy...WHEN and WHERE did I "seem to claim" that she has reached 100% adoption? Here, let me quote myself from a little earlier, just to refresh your memory of what I said:
| QUOTE |
| No, because of people like Teddy Palmer CHANGED a lot of minds, and shifted their view of the dogs. I have a feeling Teddy was told no (and why it won't work) a few times too. |
What I said, exactly, was that Teddy changed "a lot" of minds. And it is quite obvious that you missed the whole point of the post.
Oh, and your claim that I am just full of hot air? Ooh, you so got me.....
QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 21 2008, 08:20 PM)
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Mar 21 2008, 03:51 PM) |
| Have you been to a track for yourself to see how things work and have you ever betted on the racers. JMO |
Yes, I have been to tracks but never placed a bet. The odds just weren't in my favor.
Jenn
You never know, you might just do well at betting Jenna. I been to several tracks, made some bets, won some, lost some but when you win and your down by the rail, it's a sweet feeling. Even if you lose, it's thrilling.
I hope to get some time off soon and hit the track.
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 05:22 PM) |
| ....Are the dogs on the farms in OK and KS destroyed at the end of their breeding careers like they were 10 years ago? No, because of people like Teddy Palmer CHANGED a lot of minds, and shifted their view of the dogs. |
So how many is she moving a month? How many need to be moved and don't make it? Give her a call and I bet she tells you she's not even making a dent in the problem on the farms out there.
You make it sound like the problem has gone away and you don't even know if the numbers of dogs lost on the farms has even changed.
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 28 2008, 04:45 PM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 24 2008, 05:22 PM) |
| ....Are the dogs on the farms in OK and KS destroyed at the end of their breeding careers like they were 10 years ago? No, because of people like Teddy Palmer CHANGED a lot of minds, and shifted their view of the dogs. |
So how many is she moving a month? How many need to be moved and don't make it? Give her a call and I bet she tells you she's not even making a dent in the problem on the farms out there.
You make it sound like the problem has gone away and you don't even know if the numbers of dogs lost on the farms has even changed.
ACTUALLY, I have had a lengthy conversation with Teddy regarding her work. If you actually knew her, you would know that she wouldn't tell you whether or not she was "making a dent", as she isn't one to toot her own horn. Why don't you give her a call-I can send you her cell phone number if you would like.
Greyhounds are still being put down. Stop this madness.
Step up to the plate and help
| QUOTE (mountain4greys @ Mar 29 2008, 02:57 PM) |
| Step up to the plate and help |
| QUOTE (mountain4greys @ Mar 29 2008, 01:57 PM) |
| Step up to the plate and help |
How do you know if I am helping or not? Don't just assume things.
Because, usually people that are doing something, will say how they are helping.
And way to many like to talk the talk.
And way to many like to talk the talk.
QUOTE (allforgreys @ Mar 29 2008, 05:30 PM)
| QUOTE (mountain4greys @ Mar 29 2008, 01:57 PM) |
| Step up to the plate and help |
How do you know if I am helping or not? Don't just assume things.
It's easy for everyone to jump in now and try to help her. Have you been there for her all along, she's been yelling to deaf ears for years. If those dogs wouldn't have died, would you be helping? Those dogs never would have died if everyone that's trying to help now would have been helping her a month ago.
If there is no where for the dogs to go then there's nowhere for the dogs to go. Someone has to step up and take action at that point, the kennel just did what they thought they needed to do to keep the ones that she could get petted out, petted out.
The kennel is going out of business, obviously they have no money, you can't take care of the dogs if you have no money. Would you rather that they let the dogs starve to death?
If we all work together, PR/AR's, it will made racing and adoption work better.
| QUOTE (greydaddy @ Mar 31 2008, 11:57 AM) |
| If we all work together, PR/AR's, it will made racing and adoption work better. |
I agree 100%
I have an idea. What if the racing people struck a deal with the AR's (adoption groups) to agree that if they gave them more dogs, then the dogs should not be used against them in any anti-racing campaigns?
That way, maybe it would free up space for people like Pam who are overloaded.
Jenna
That way, maybe it would free up space for people like Pam who are overloaded.
Jenna
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 28 2008, 09:06 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 28 2008, 04:45 PM) | ||
So how many is she moving a month? How many need to be moved and don't make it? Give her a call and I bet she tells you she's not even making a dent in the problem on the farms out there. You make it sound like the problem has gone away and you don't even know if the numbers of dogs lost on the farms has even changed. |
ACTUALLY, I have had a lengthy conversation with Teddy regarding her work. If you actually knew her, you would know that she wouldn't tell you whether or not she was "making a dent", as she isn't one to toot her own horn. Why don't you give her a call-I can send you her cell phone number if you would like.
Please. Do you actually believe the BS you post? Teddy has wathced 100 of you newbies come and go and so have I.
So what's her save rate? 1%? 0.5%? She would tell you huh? It's funny, you claim to have the answers but won't post them. Guess you don't know shit from shineola, eh?
Once again, just can't bring yourself to ask a question or make a statement without attempted personal insults. Just like I posted in the other thread, I will never respond to a question asked in that manner.
I said a few days ago I knew you'd refuse to reply and hide since you are full of BS. At least others that post here know what they are talking about, you make it up as you go along and everyone knows it.
Get some facts man, then come post. Thanks.
Get some facts man, then come post. Thanks.
Once again...just can't post without an insult, huh?
Being exposed for a bag of hot air is killing you and that's OK. Swallow your pride and you'll do a lot more for adoption than you ever dreamed.
Good luck Chris, hang in there and move some dogs, visit some tracks, kennels and farms and then come back wih some facts. We appreciate your efforts.
Good luck Chris, hang in there and move some dogs, visit some tracks, kennels and farms and then come back wih some facts. We appreciate your efforts.
90% of the members on this board know what I do. I don't have to explain myself to you. And I would have answered any question you wanted if you had asked it without an insult. Too bad a civilized debate has to be ruined by your repetitive "hot air, BS" comments.
Yes, those comments were un called for. No more or else.
greydaddy
greydaddy
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 31 2008, 06:27 PM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 28 2008, 09:06 PM) | ||
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 28 2008, 04:45 PM)
So how many is she moving a month? How many need to be moved and don't make it? Give her a call and I bet she tells you she's not even making a dent in the problem on the farms out there. You make it sound like the problem has gone away and you don't even know if the numbers of dogs lost on the farms has even changed. |
ACTUALLY, I have had a lengthy conversation with Teddy regarding her work. If you actually knew her, you would know that she wouldn't tell you whether or not she was "making a dent", as she isn't one to toot her own horn. Why don't you give her a call-I can send you her cell phone number if you would like.
.........
So what's her save rate? 1%? 0.5%? She would tell you huh? It's funny, you claim to have the answers but won't post them. ..........
I've editted my initial question to Chris(see above). Perhaps now he can answer it.
Thanks
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 31 2008, 07:44 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 31 2008, 06:27 PM) | ||||
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 28 2008, 09:06 PM)
ACTUALLY, I have had a lengthy conversation with Teddy regarding her work. If you actually knew her, you would know that she wouldn't tell you whether or not she was "making a dent", as she isn't one to toot her own horn. Why don't you give her a call-I can send you her cell phone number if you would like. |
.........
So what's her save rate? 1%? 0.5%? She would tell you huh? It's funny, you claim to have the answers but won't post them. ..........
I've editted my initial question to Chris(see above). Perhaps now he can answer it.
I gave you close to a dozen opportunities to ask me a question without including a personal attack or insult. You simply couldn't do it. I repeated myself numerous times. You have now proven that you can only do so when you have been reprimanded by Admin. I don't play that way. I only play ball with ADULTS that can monitor themselves. I will continue to debate, but not in this thread.
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 31 2008, 08:00 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 31 2008, 07:44 PM) | ||||
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 31 2008, 06:27 PM)
ACTUALLY, I have had a lengthy conversation with Teddy regarding her work. If you actually knew her, you would know that she wouldn't tell you whether or not she was "making a dent", as she isn't one to toot her own horn. Why don't you give her a call-I can send you her cell phone number if you would like. |
.........
So what's her save rate? 1%? 0.5%? She would tell you huh? It's funny, you claim to have the answers but won't post them. ..........
I've editted my initial question to Chris(see above). Perhaps now he can answer it.
I gave you close to a dozen opportunities to ask me a question without including a personal attack or insult. You simply couldn't do it. I repeated myself numerous times. You have now proven that you can only do so when you have been reprimanded by Admin. I don't play that way. I only play ball with ADULTS that can monitor themselves. I will continue to debate, but not in this thread.
Things were going pretty good, then we hit a little bump.
You all can continue, if you want, but let's just keep it on the topic and not on members and such.
This topic has a grown a few pages, and reading through everything, all posters have not agreed but still were able to give there sides. This is what debates are all about. You don't have to agree but respect each other.
Didn't you all have debate class in high school. The last few posts if they were said in a class setting, the teacher would give an "F" as a grade.
Thanks
greydaddy
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Mar 31 2008, 08:00 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 31 2008, 07:44 PM) | ||||
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Mar 31 2008, 06:27 PM)
ACTUALLY, I have had a lengthy conversation with Teddy regarding her work. If you actually knew her, you would know that she wouldn't tell you whether or not she was "making a dent", as she isn't one to toot her own horn. Why don't you give her a call-I can send you her cell phone number if you would like. |
.........
So what's her save rate? 1%? 0.5%? She would tell you huh? It's funny, you claim to have the answers but won't post them. ..........
I've editted my initial question to Chris(see above). Perhaps now he can answer it.
I gave you close to a dozen opportunities to ask me a question without including a personal attack or insult. You simply couldn't do it. I repeated myself numerous times. You have now proven that you can only do so when you have been reprimanded by Admin. I don't play that way. I only play ball with ADULTS that can monitor themselves. I will continue to debate, but not in this thread.
You repeated youself and never answered the question. So now you won't answer the question. I knew you played that way, not a sustainable fact in anything you post.
When you are ready to back up your posts please come back and join the conversation. I'll be waiting and promise not to call you a bag of hot air anymore.
I feel bad. Sorry admins. As I read through the posts and my first post was just to sign the petition and boy look where we have come.
I am not upset nobody wanted to sign it. I am just glad D2P kept the post up and not deleted it like some other forums would have.
After reading othe topics I am happy to say that there are lots of passionate greyhound people out there even though we may not agree with each other, we still have the passion to do good.
for having the courage to allow open expression and not open flaming.
Also, D2P is cool because he will pm me when I get out of control which I do cause I am passionate about these greyhounds. I hope you all understand that.
I am not upset nobody wanted to sign it. I am just glad D2P kept the post up and not deleted it like some other forums would have.
After reading othe topics I am happy to say that there are lots of passionate greyhound people out there even though we may not agree with each other, we still have the passion to do good.
for having the courage to allow open expression and not open flaming. Also, D2P is cool because he will pm me when I get out of control which I do cause I am passionate about these greyhounds. I hope you all understand that.
I'm sorry, I just HAD to make one more post.
If you would reread my post (posts which I don't have to edit after the fact), you would see where I stated this:
If you would reread my post (posts which I don't have to edit after the fact), you would see where I stated this:
| QUOTE |
| If you actually knew her, you would know that she wouldn't tell you whether or not she was "making a dent", as she isn't one to toot her own horn |
To which you ask this:
QUOTE
So what's her save rate? 1%? 0.5%? She would tell you huh? It's funny, you claim to have the answers but won't post them. ..........
Are you having trouble reading what I post? What I said was that Teddy WON'T TELL YOU HOW GREAT OF A JOB SHE IS DOING. Now how do you expect anyone to know something that won't be divulged by the only party that knows?
You say I:
Now where in any of the above statements have I claimed to have all the answers? Hmmm? Since you are a master at Cut and Paste, show me where I said that, and I will gladly answer all of your questions, insults and all.
You see, 90% of your problem is semantics. You think that you can insert half truths and use slight of hand, rearrange what someone said, and call members names, and they will just go away, and you will be left to triple and quadruple post til your heart's content. Every member on this forum can read through these debates and get a pretty good idea of what is really going on.
So go ahead and find that post where I
I'll be waiting.
Are you having trouble reading what I post? What I said was that Teddy WON'T TELL YOU HOW GREAT OF A JOB SHE IS DOING. Now how do you expect anyone to know something that won't be divulged by the only party that knows?
You say I:
| QUOTE |
| claim to have the answers but won't post them. .......... |
Now where in any of the above statements have I claimed to have all the answers? Hmmm? Since you are a master at Cut and Paste, show me where I said that, and I will gladly answer all of your questions, insults and all.
You see, 90% of your problem is semantics. You think that you can insert half truths and use slight of hand, rearrange what someone said, and call members names, and they will just go away, and you will be left to triple and quadruple post til your heart's content. Every member on this forum can read through these debates and get a pretty good idea of what is really going on.
So go ahead and find that post where I
| QUOTE |
| claim to have the answers but won't post them. .......... |
I'll be waiting.
| QUOTE (allforgreys @ Mar 31 2008, 08:37 PM) |
| I feel bad. Sorry admins. As I read through the posts and my first post was just to sign the petition and boy look where we have come. I am not upset nobody wanted to sign it. I am just glad D2P kept the post up and not deleted it like some other forums would have. After reading othe topics I am happy to say that there are lots of passionate greyhound people out there even though we may not agree with each other, we still have the passion to do good. for having the courage to allow open expression and not open flaming. Also, D2P is cool because he will pm me when I get out of control which I do cause I am passionate about these greyhounds. I hope you all understand that. |
Allforgreys, although we sit on opposing sides of the fence, you have my utmost respect.
Prefontaine:
You say the situation on the farms is better than it was but then admit you have no knowledge of the numbers, either before or after Teddy began moving dogs from farms to groups, so what are you basing your opinion on? Specuation?
The situation on the farms just like that facing adoption figures everywhere is that everyone like to say it is getting better but no one with the ability to produce the real numbers will do it. I have a feeling it's becasue they wouldn't like what they saw.
You say the situation on the farms is better than it was but then admit you have no knowledge of the numbers, either before or after Teddy began moving dogs from farms to groups, so what are you basing your opinion on? Specuation?
The situation on the farms just like that facing adoption figures everywhere is that everyone like to say it is getting better but no one with the ability to produce the real numbers will do it. I have a feeling it's becasue they wouldn't like what they saw.
If you are so interested in these numbers, why don't you do some research and find them out for yourself. I am not your errand boy. The figures are right there on Teddy's website. And geez (now I will put this in all caps so you don't miss it this time), HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT I NEVER SAID I HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS? I see you haven't gone back and found that post I supposedly made. I will just keep waiting on that one...
The funny thing about numbers, is that even when numbers are published, you don't believe them anyway. You said:
The funny thing about numbers, is that even when numbers are published, you don't believe them anyway. You said:
| QUOTE |
| but no one with the ability to produce the real numbers will do it. |
The AGC publishes numbers every year regarding adoption rates. Here, I'll even give you the webpage: AGC Adoptions
Now I know you aren't going to believe those figures, so it was really a waste of time even posting them. But that's just it...who are you ever going to believe?? You'll never believe anyone, because then you will have nothing to argue about. You say there IS someone with the ability to produce real numbers, so just exactly who is that?
This has certainly been an interesting read.
I somehow think that the subject has lost its way.
Normally I dont put my two cents in when I cant speak to the documentation. I will however state that after watching the PR/AR issues for some time now that things seem to be improving for the hounds. Its not because of numbers that I say this, its simply by watching the continually unfolding changes that are right in front of my nose. Its not perfect but is moving in the right direction. There is a reason that I will not sign the petition.
Anti racing people get in my face and tell me horror stories but they cant tell me what they have done to improve the life of the hounds. Inflaming doesn't work. Pro racing people seem to be putting their money where their mouth is lately.
It is becomming quite apparent that the tracks are working much more closely with the adoption groups.
More kennels are holding hounds to get them into the groups.
Kennel workers aren't keeping their mouths shut when they see abuse any longer. God bless those who govern themselves accordingly.
More adoption groups are out there working hard to place the hounds than ever before. Are adoption groups PR or AR? Who cares! They are placing hounds in homes...
States are trying to improve and add legislation to protect the hounds (I'll start a new thread on that one. Yeah Fl)
The public is becomming more aware of the wonderful companions that greyhounds make = more adoptions.
Research is progressing at a faster rate in dealing with the special medical issues in greyhounds. PR or AR? Who cares!
The push is on to educate more vets in dealing with the differences in greyhound physiology. PR or AR? Once agin, who cares! Its helping the hounds
This list can go on and on. As a critical care nurse, my job entails a lot of communication. With families, patients, labs, MD's, ansillary services, police, clergy and a thousand other people in the course of my day. The one thing that ties it all together is what my real job is. Its the same thing that I feel is needed and being done every day for the hounds.
Communicate, Educate and Advocate.
You can bicker over the numbers til the cows come home and they dont mean crap if the above three words are missing. I applaude the kennels that are working hard to place their retired hounds into groups. There will always be bad apples in any given barrel. Doping in horse racing, baseball and football as well as the few rotten ones in greyhound racing.. Hopefully they will be found and weeded out. The system may not be perfect but its a damned sight better than it was twenty years ago, even ten years ago. And changes are continuing.
I try to NOT cringe when people see my hounds and get rabid talking about things that happened many years ago. Times are changing and I try to educate people on what is being done to help the hounds now and in the future. Communicate the knowledge that has been granted me to help others learn. And always, always, always advocate for the hounds. Spare me from the radical crazy people slinging horror stories and screaming to ban racing. They serve only to inflame and do NOTHING to educate, communicate or advocate.
I choose not to sign the OP petition. Banning will not happen. Period. Bush does not have the power to do anything about it. It is a STATE issue. Its a useless piece of paper that gets nothing done in the end. I am going to however, rattle off quite a few letters to the politicians who will be voting on new legislation in Florida to improve the on site kennel inspections in Florida and give the laws more teeth in dealing with the "bad apple" kennels, tracks and farms that are in violation of the animal rights and abuse laws...
And as for the NUMBERS? The numbers are better today then they were yesterday.
For the months of February and March, our adoption group found homes for 35 (thirty five) hounds. That may be a little low because I think Michelle delivered two more to their new homes yesterday.
Hopefully we can keep up this pace. These are the numbers that I care about.
I love my hounds and I love what I do to help the hounds. It is not a plight they must be rescued from, it is a mission statement that I choose - to help improve their lives...
Communicate, Educate and Advocate......
Done.
L.
I somehow think that the subject has lost its way.
Normally I dont put my two cents in when I cant speak to the documentation. I will however state that after watching the PR/AR issues for some time now that things seem to be improving for the hounds. Its not because of numbers that I say this, its simply by watching the continually unfolding changes that are right in front of my nose. Its not perfect but is moving in the right direction. There is a reason that I will not sign the petition.
Anti racing people get in my face and tell me horror stories but they cant tell me what they have done to improve the life of the hounds. Inflaming doesn't work. Pro racing people seem to be putting their money where their mouth is lately.
It is becomming quite apparent that the tracks are working much more closely with the adoption groups.
More kennels are holding hounds to get them into the groups.
Kennel workers aren't keeping their mouths shut when they see abuse any longer. God bless those who govern themselves accordingly.
More adoption groups are out there working hard to place the hounds than ever before. Are adoption groups PR or AR? Who cares! They are placing hounds in homes...
States are trying to improve and add legislation to protect the hounds (I'll start a new thread on that one. Yeah Fl)
The public is becomming more aware of the wonderful companions that greyhounds make = more adoptions.
Research is progressing at a faster rate in dealing with the special medical issues in greyhounds. PR or AR? Who cares!
The push is on to educate more vets in dealing with the differences in greyhound physiology. PR or AR? Once agin, who cares! Its helping the hounds
This list can go on and on. As a critical care nurse, my job entails a lot of communication. With families, patients, labs, MD's, ansillary services, police, clergy and a thousand other people in the course of my day. The one thing that ties it all together is what my real job is. Its the same thing that I feel is needed and being done every day for the hounds.
Communicate, Educate and Advocate.
You can bicker over the numbers til the cows come home and they dont mean crap if the above three words are missing. I applaude the kennels that are working hard to place their retired hounds into groups. There will always be bad apples in any given barrel. Doping in horse racing, baseball and football as well as the few rotten ones in greyhound racing.. Hopefully they will be found and weeded out. The system may not be perfect but its a damned sight better than it was twenty years ago, even ten years ago. And changes are continuing.
I try to NOT cringe when people see my hounds and get rabid talking about things that happened many years ago. Times are changing and I try to educate people on what is being done to help the hounds now and in the future. Communicate the knowledge that has been granted me to help others learn. And always, always, always advocate for the hounds. Spare me from the radical crazy people slinging horror stories and screaming to ban racing. They serve only to inflame and do NOTHING to educate, communicate or advocate.
I choose not to sign the OP petition. Banning will not happen. Period. Bush does not have the power to do anything about it. It is a STATE issue. Its a useless piece of paper that gets nothing done in the end. I am going to however, rattle off quite a few letters to the politicians who will be voting on new legislation in Florida to improve the on site kennel inspections in Florida and give the laws more teeth in dealing with the "bad apple" kennels, tracks and farms that are in violation of the animal rights and abuse laws...
And as for the NUMBERS? The numbers are better today then they were yesterday.
For the months of February and March, our adoption group found homes for 35 (thirty five) hounds. That may be a little low because I think Michelle delivered two more to their new homes yesterday.
Hopefully we can keep up this pace. These are the numbers that I care about.
I love my hounds and I love what I do to help the hounds. It is not a plight they must be rescued from, it is a mission statement that I choose - to help improve their lives...
Communicate, Educate and Advocate......
Done.
L.
This post has made the most sense of any post on any of these AR/PR discussions. Leslie, you are absolutly right about this!I know things are getting better, and there will always be bad apples, BUT, they are improving, and I think will continue to improve to.
Thank you for this post.
I wish I was better with words, because I do have a lot to say, but you've said it for me.
Leslie, great post. 
Very well said.
Very well said.
Thankyou racezmom.
That was a awesome post
Hi all - I've been gone a long time. Lots of sadness in my world lately. But I really want to add one point that no one else made. If racing stopped in the U. S., we would become an exporter of greyhounds, just like Ireland is... How do you think conditions are for the greys in third world countries? How responsive are those folks going to be to your petitions? I became active when I saw a poor little West Virginia hound all alone in Florida and I became obsessed with making sure that this one hound got out. She's lying on my couch these days... the one on top:
It was way easier to get her out of Florida than Figi...
It was way easier to get her out of Florida than Figi...
Thank you Judi for bringing that up. We had a gentleman come in to the adoption kennel looking for some hounds to take to South America to race there. He was very polite, good manners and very up front about what he was looking for. Michelle was polite but firm about not being able to help him. I'm sure he was able to find a kennel somewhere to get hounds from for export. You've made a very valid point.
L.
L.
I wish people would think about the hounds and their well being. I also wish they would get all their facts straight before getting everyone riled up
Great post Judi
WOW!!! -- lots of views both ways -- here goes my two cents -- i do not bet - i do not know all the ends and outs even tho I have read a lot on both sides of the issue -- and I did sign the petition because I have a senior that came from florida and the word was he was going to be put down, he was nine -- the gpa had him and evidently the word was put out and thru another group that worked hard to secure his fate he became ours sight unseen and not even knowing his full story we brought him home -- now that is wonderful but the sad case is -- is that he is a direct decendent of Moltov (spelling ?) he is his son -- now it took a while to find all this out because the wrong papers were sent with our guy -- when the day arrived for the adoption -I cried at the sight of him he was 70 pounds and so letharic that he could not even hold his head up -- it took 2 months of love to bring him up to par now he is 90 and yes he still has a waist -- he had corns the size of marbles on two of his feet -- his teeth are worn down to the pulp and his ears were full of fungus ----- then I have another sweet girl who was returned twice then we fostered and she became ours and she should have been taken to the vet because there was a question of her heart as it was stated on her medical records -----both of my sweeties are doing fine and very well loved ---so my thoughts are that yes these dogs are born to run but at what expense for mans pleasure -- my neddie was a top winner why could they not have put a little money that he earned into his teeth or gotten the corns removed when they have made thousands of dollars ? where was the gpa who is so into the after care of these dogs in getting the corns removed or his teeth sealed so they would not hurt him anymore? why was my little girl not taken to the vet after her return just to check what true condition her health was in? I have heard the comments that you wouldn't have your dogs if not for the racing and I respond GREAT because they would not have been thru the life they have lived -- so I believe that if our hearts are truly for the hounds that more people will see to it that the right issues are brought up and fight for those -- ones that ensure to the medical conditions of the dogs and that there is more record keeping of all born puppies and see to it that there are certified vets that document the downing of dogs humanely and then the groups must all work together and open up the financial records so that the public can see that monies are being spent for the health of the dogs and their well- being let's all make this effort to ban together for the well-being of the racing greyhound
brindlegirl
| QUOTE (brindlegirl @ Apr 16 2008, 09:26 AM) |
| WOW!!! -- lots of views both ways -- here goes my two cents -- i do not bet - i do not know all the ends and outs even tho I have read a lot on both sides of the issue -- and I did sign the petition because I have a senior that came from florida and the word was he was going to be put down, he was nine -- the gpa had him and evidently the word was put out and thru another group that worked hard to secure his fate he became ours sight unseen and not even knowing his full story we brought him home -- now that is wonderful but the sad case is -- is that he is a direct decendent of Moltov (spelling ?) he is his son -- now it took a while to find all this out because the wrong papers were sent with our guy -- when the day arrived for the adoption -I cried at the sight of him he was 70 pounds and so letharic that he could not even hold his head up -- it took 2 months of love to bring him up to par now he is 90 and yes he still has a waist -- he had corns the size of marbles on two of his feet -- his teeth are worn down to the pulp and his ears were full of fungus ----- then I have another sweet girl who was returned twice then we fostered and she became ours and she should have been taken to the vet because there was a question of her heart as it was stated on her medical records -----both of my sweeties are doing fine and very well loved ---so my thoughts are that yes these dogs are born to run but at what expense for mans pleasure -- my neddie was a top winner why could they not have put a little money that he earned into his teeth or gotten the corns removed when they have made thousands of dollars ? where was the gpa who is so into the after care of these dogs in getting the corns removed or his teeth sealed so they would not hurt him anymore? why was my little girl not taken to the vet after her return just to check what true condition her health was in? I have heard the comments that you wouldn't have your dogs if not for the racing and I respond GREAT because they would not have been thru the life they have lived -- so I believe that if our hearts are truly for the hounds that more people will see to it that the right issues are brought up and fight for those -- ones that ensure to the medical conditions of the dogs and that there is more record keeping of all born puppies and see to it that there are certified vets that document the downing of dogs humanely and then the groups must all work together and open up the financial records so that the public can see that monies are being spent for the health of the dogs and their well- being let's all make this effort to ban together for the well-being of the racing greyhound |
It was greyt that you were able to get these dogs and nurse them back to good health. It's also good that you took the time to find out their pedigree. If you search greyhound-data you will find that Molotov has lots of pups. As do most good studs.
However I am wondering if you actually expect Bush to do anything about this? I am also wondering if you really read the petition and did your homework on the stuff that was in there.
I wonder if you put much thought into what would happen to the greyhound breed if racing were banned?
There would be no control over the breeding. There would be no NGA and rules around the breeding. There would be no inspections of the farms and race kennels. The price of the pups would drop sharply. There would be cases where cross breeding would occur. Now you have mutts on your hands. And where do the mutts wind up? Some will go to good homes. Some will wind up in the pound.
Now tell me if this isn't what happens with nearly every other breed of dog. Most city funded pounds keep dogs for 3 days and then if they are not claimed by the owner or adopted out, they are put down. 3 days!!! That's it!! This happens every day.
You claim your dogs were in miserable shape when you got them. I will not argue that. Do you think that the dogs in the pound are somehow in better shape when they arrive? When you think about life without racing, ask yourself--Why are those dogs in the pound there??-- Who caused them to be there?? I would dearly love to see Grey2K and other radical groups focus their attention on the thousands of dogs that wind up in the pounds, and their plight. The one fact that I know is that they didn't wind up there because of racing. And then what makes you think the same thing wouldn't happen to the greyhound?
Banning racing is not the answer. Racing is not the root cause of the problems.
Your passion for the welfare of the dogs is to be commended.
hey fast dog -- first i DO claim my dogs were in very POOR health when I got them ---- why would I lie about that!!! Second -- as far as cross breed hounds -- that has been happening for a long time and where is the control of breeding there? and I am sure you know of it --- they cross breed with heavier type dogs such as black labs to run deer in the mountains -- this is a fact that all of the greyhound people know -- and YES all good studs do have lots of pups but Moltov comes from a long line with LOTS of MONEY and what does that have to do with anything --- my guy had WON lots of money for his human -- so Why could some of it not be used for his health? not only do I question this but i have been around a lot of people that do not understand this fact --- as long as the dogs are making money (oh that would be for the owners and the track and lets not forget the kennel (if the dog is not directly keep by the owner) I feel the $ should be shared a little with the winner -- oh that would be the dog-- for lets say maybe a few massages or maybe good bedding instead of newspaper or even a good flea and tick medicine.
to the breeding of greys -- I think about breeding of all dogs -- I believe the grey has been around with the bible and they were used for hunting -- how niave of people to always say what will happen to the breed -- well i do not think anything -- the grey will be around as all other breeds have been except they are a pure blood breed -- take the charpai -- it was almost gone until a japanese guy called a breeder in the USA to help get one of the few last ones out -- well they snatched up on that and now we have the charpai again but from the earliest of recorded know history our modern day .charpai looks little like the original but our greys do and there will always be some idiot out there to do some kind of cross and then some idiot to buy one.
now on to the farms -- as every person who does think and has been around all this can at anytime go to any paper where kennels and tracks are and find articles dated as little as 2 years ago about the so-called inspections that do not occur -- I went to the new hampshire,florida and arizona websites and found several papers with good and bad (oh yes researching racing shortly after i got my first dog) and they have payoffs just like any other business.
as far as control over the breeding --I believe there is no control now over breeding -- the Gpa has deemed it just a few years ago, maybe four or five, that all pups born now be registared because they did not have any idea how many pups were actually born and at what rate they were being put down -- now fast dog i would bet that not all were put down and i would also say that some friend or a little money would get ya one --- can any breeding be controlled ?
as far as bush --- get real did ya think that everyone thinks that was the right source? NO -- but a lot of us want to make any effort to help the dogs in a big way and i think that getting at racing is the anwser --- so just maybe that petition will get to someone who cares.
now I am tired of this racing thing --- I do not agree with it and that is my right -- i was born in florida and i grew up with the horror stories from down there -- i DO know that mans greed over rides almost everything thing else in this world and all I want is for these dogs to ALL be treated fairly and with the respect they deserve and if you are in racing then you do know of the poorer kennels and the injustice of these dogs -- I wish they could all have the perfect owners and the perfect kennels -- oh that is right there is no such thing as perfect but there is a word called decent -- so instead of wasting time disagreeing with me get out there and report those bad kennels and help to get greyhound racing to the place it needs to be --- for the respect of the greyhound!!!!!!
to the breeding of greys -- I think about breeding of all dogs -- I believe the grey has been around with the bible and they were used for hunting -- how niave of people to always say what will happen to the breed -- well i do not think anything -- the grey will be around as all other breeds have been except they are a pure blood breed -- take the charpai -- it was almost gone until a japanese guy called a breeder in the USA to help get one of the few last ones out -- well they snatched up on that and now we have the charpai again but from the earliest of recorded know history our modern day .charpai looks little like the original but our greys do and there will always be some idiot out there to do some kind of cross and then some idiot to buy one.
now on to the farms -- as every person who does think and has been around all this can at anytime go to any paper where kennels and tracks are and find articles dated as little as 2 years ago about the so-called inspections that do not occur -- I went to the new hampshire,florida and arizona websites and found several papers with good and bad (oh yes researching racing shortly after i got my first dog) and they have payoffs just like any other business.
as far as control over the breeding --I believe there is no control now over breeding -- the Gpa has deemed it just a few years ago, maybe four or five, that all pups born now be registared because they did not have any idea how many pups were actually born and at what rate they were being put down -- now fast dog i would bet that not all were put down and i would also say that some friend or a little money would get ya one --- can any breeding be controlled ?
as far as bush --- get real did ya think that everyone thinks that was the right source? NO -- but a lot of us want to make any effort to help the dogs in a big way and i think that getting at racing is the anwser --- so just maybe that petition will get to someone who cares.
now I am tired of this racing thing --- I do not agree with it and that is my right -- i was born in florida and i grew up with the horror stories from down there -- i DO know that mans greed over rides almost everything thing else in this world and all I want is for these dogs to ALL be treated fairly and with the respect they deserve and if you are in racing then you do know of the poorer kennels and the injustice of these dogs -- I wish they could all have the perfect owners and the perfect kennels -- oh that is right there is no such thing as perfect but there is a word called decent -- so instead of wasting time disagreeing with me get out there and report those bad kennels and help to get greyhound racing to the place it needs to be --- for the respect of the greyhound!!!!!!
| QUOTE |
| they did not have any idea how many pups were actually born |
In reality, you could not possibly be more wrong on this one. Every pup born must be reported. If you have a litter of 5 stillborn pups, it must be reported as 5 pups. The numbers are used to keep track of the progeny of each stud dog used. BTW, every male and female used for breeding must have a DNA sample taken and on file.
is the GPA wrong? -- GPA website -- /anwsers to commonly asked questions section ---- "of the 838,426 greys whelped from 86 to 02 ,652,205 were individually registared,a difference of 186,221 young dogs were eliminated from the system before reaching racing age because farm rescue is rare the majority of these are presummed dead." ----- another page on -- know the facts about greyhound racing -----
year --- 2006
litters born --- 3,768
est. # born --- 24,567
dogs individually reg. to race (NGA) --- 22,951
farm puppies culled before racing --- 1,616
can any of us know who is being truthful? i would guess not but what makes sense to me is i do know there is very little mention of puppies and when a group might get one they do get so excited when one gets out ---
year --- 2006
litters born --- 3,768
est. # born --- 24,567
dogs individually reg. to race (NGA) --- 22,951
farm puppies culled before racing --- 1,616
can any of us know who is being truthful? i would guess not but what makes sense to me is i do know there is very little mention of puppies and when a group might get one they do get so excited when one gets out ---
| QUOTE (brindlegirl @ May 5 2008, 10:29 AM) |
| is the GPA wrong? -- GPA website -- /anwsers to commonly asked questions section ---- "of the 838,426 greys whelped from 86 to 02 ,652,205 were individually registared,a difference of 186,221 young dogs were eliminated from the system before reaching racing age because farm rescue is rare the majority of these are presummed dead." ----- another page on -- know the facts about greyhound racing ----- year --- 2006 litters born --- 3,768 est. # born --- 24,567 dogs individually reg. to race (NGA) --- 22,951 farm puppies culled before racing --- 1,616 can any of us know who is being truthful? i would guess not but what makes sense to me is i do know there is very little mention of puppies and when a group might get one they do get so excited when one gets out --- |
It says estimated number of pups per litter, the pups are counted even if they're stillborn. I can go through the SOKC kennel compound tomorrow and find at least 50 dogs in kennels there that were never registered to race, a lot of kennels will try dogs for the owners that look questionable as far as their racing ability. They will tell the owners if it's worth the time or money to register the dogs, otherwise the kennel will just pet them out.
The numbers that you are using are from years ago, the day of the backyard breeder are long done and over. Breedings are way down and the quality of breedings are way up.
| QUOTE (brindlegirl @ May 4 2008, 06:46 PM) |
| hey fast dog -- first i DO claim my dogs were in very POOR health when I got them ---- why would I lie about that!!! Second -- as far as cross breed hounds -- that has been happening for a long time and where is the control of breeding there? and I am sure you know of it --- they cross breed with heavier type dogs such as black labs to run deer in the mountains -- this is a fact that all of the greyhound people know -- and YES all good studs do have lots of pups but Moltov comes from a long line with LOTS of MONEY and what does that have to do with anything --- my guy had WON lots of money for his human -- so Why could some of it not be used for his health? not only do I question this but i have been around a lot of people that do not understand this fact --- as long as the dogs are making money (oh that would be for the owners and the track and lets not forget the kennel (if the dog is not directly keep by the owner) I feel the $ should be shared a little with the winner -- oh that would be the dog-- for lets say maybe a few massages or maybe good bedding instead of newspaper or even a good flea and tick medicine. to the breeding of greys -- I think about breeding of all dogs -- I believe the grey has been around with the bible and they were used for hunting -- how niave of people to always say what will happen to the breed -- well i do not think anything -- the grey will be around as all other breeds have been except they are a pure blood breed -- take the charpai -- it was almost gone until a japanese guy called a breeder in the USA to help get one of the few last ones out -- well they snatched up on that and now we have the charpai again but from the earliest of recorded know history our modern day .charpai looks little like the original but our greys do and there will always be some idiot out there to do some kind of cross and then some idiot to buy one. now on to the farms -- as every person who does think and has been around all this can at anytime go to any paper where kennels and tracks are and find articles dated as little as 2 years ago about the so-called inspections that do not occur -- I went to the new hampshire,florida and arizona websites and found several papers with good and bad (oh yes researching racing shortly after i got my first dog) and they have payoffs just like any other business. as far as control over the breeding --I believe there is no control now over breeding -- the Gpa has deemed it just a few years ago, maybe four or five, that all pups born now be registared because they did not have any idea how many pups were actually born and at what rate they were being put down -- now fast dog i would bet that not all were put down and i would also say that some friend or a little money would get ya one --- can any breeding be controlled ? as far as bush --- get real did ya think that everyone thinks that was the right source? NO -- but a lot of us want to make any effort to help the dogs in a big way and i think that getting at racing is the anwser --- so just maybe that petition will get to someone who cares. now I am tired of this racing thing --- I do not agree with it and that is my right -- i was born in florida and i grew up with the horror stories from down there -- i DO know that mans greed over rides almost everything thing else in this world and all I want is for these dogs to ALL be treated fairly and with the respect they deserve and if you are in racing then you do know of the poorer kennels and the injustice of these dogs -- I wish they could all have the perfect owners and the perfect kennels -- oh that is right there is no such thing as perfect but there is a word called decent -- so instead of wasting time disagreeing with me get out there and report those bad kennels and help to get greyhound racing to the place it needs to be --- for the respect of the greyhound!!!!!! |
If you read what I said I did not argue with you about the condition of your dogs. I did not call you a liar!
Why did the kennel your dogs came from not put more money back into the dogs? I don't know. Why don't you ask them. You found all those stats from once upon a time you can probably find the owner and kennel owners phone number and call them. While you are talking to them they will probably tell you why they are on paper in the race kennels. At the end of your post you wanted me to report the bad people. You do it if you feel strongly about this particular kennel or owner. Here is the number for the NGA. 1-785-263-4660. As far as you believing there is no control over breeding now-- you are flat wrong. You go and try to breed yourself a pair of greys and then try and put one of the pups on the track without going through the proper paperwork and format and see how far you get. You wont have to bother with the Gpa you will be dealing with the NGA.
Finally your comment about me wasting my time disagreeing with you. I am not. A good discussion is never a waste of time, no matter which side of the argument you are on.
| QUOTE (brindlegirl @ May 5 2008, 09:29 AM) |
| is the GPA wrong? -- GPA website -- /anwsers to commonly asked questions section ---- "of the 838,426 greys whelped from 86 to 02 ,652,205 were individually registared,a difference of 186,221 young dogs were eliminated from the system before reaching racing age because farm rescue is rare the majority of these are presummed dead." ----- another page on -- know the facts about greyhound racing ----- year --- 2006 litters born --- 3,768 est. # born --- 24,567 dogs individually reg. to race (NGA) --- 22,951 farm puppies culled before racing --- 1,616 can any of us know who is being truthful? i would guess not but what makes sense to me is i do know there is very little mention of puppies and when a group might get one they do get so excited when one gets out --- |
I believe you're talking about the GPL not GPA. And yes they are using the worst possible slant on the discrepancies between whelpings and registered pups.
You are aware of mortality rates I assume. While greyhound breeders have a lower mortality rate than other purebreds, they still have one between 15-25% where other breeds can go as high as 30-35% (study by U of Pa I believe). So when you eliminate stillborn pups and those who are lost to natural causes before registration, GPL's numbers are not as dire as you apparently believe.
There is also a percentage of pups who go into training ast 12 to 14 months of age who are deemed not suitable for the track who are given away before they are individually registered. You would likely be astonished at the number of pups given away by owners and breeders without benefit of an adoption group. None of mine came from a group and so are some of those who are assumed by GPL to be put down.
QUOTE (brindlegirl @ May 4 2008, 06:46 PM)
hey fast dog -- first i DO claim my dogs were in very POOR health when I got them ---- why would I lie about that!!! Second -- as far as cross breed hounds -- that has been happening for a long time and where is the control of breeding there? and I am sure you know of it --- they cross breed with heavier type dogs such as black labs to run deer in the mountains -- this is a fact that all of the greyhound people know -- and YES all good studs do have lots of pups but Moltov comes from a long line with LOTS of MONEY and what does that have to do with anything --- my guy had WON lots of money for his human -- so Why could some of it not be used for his health? not only do I question this but i have been around a lot of people that do not understand this fact --- as long as the dogs are making money (oh that would be for the owners and the track and lets not forget the kennel (if the dog is not directly keep by the owner) I feel the $ should be shared a little with the winner -- oh that would be the dog-- for lets say maybe a few massages or maybe good bedding instead of newspaper or even a good flea and tick medicine.
to the breeding of greys -- I think about breeding of all dogs -- I believe the grey has been around with the bible and they were used for hunting -- how niave of people to always say what will happen to the breed -- well i do not think anything -- the grey will be around as all other breeds have been except they are a pure blood breed -- take the charpai -- it was almost gone until a japanese guy called a breeder in the USA to help get one of the few last ones out -- well they snatched up on that and now we have the charpai again but from the earliest of recorded know history our modern day .charpai looks little like the original but our greys do and there will always be some idiot out there to do some kind of cross and then some idiot to buy one.
now on to the farms -- as every person who does think and has been around all this can at anytime go to any paper where kennels and tracks are and find articles dated as little as 2 years ago about the so-called inspections that do not occur -- I went to the new hampshire,florida and arizona websites and found several papers with good and bad (oh yes researching racing shortly after i got my first dog) and they have payoffs just like any other business.
as far as control over the breeding --I believe there is no control now over breeding -- the Gpa has deemed it just a few years ago, maybe four or five, that all pups born now be registared because they did not have any idea how many pups were actually born and at what rate they were being put down -- now fast dog i would bet that not all were put down and i would also say that some friend or a little money would get ya one --- can any breeding be controlled ?
as far as bush --- get real did ya think that everyone thinks that was the right source? NO -- but a lot of us want to make any effort to help the dogs in a big way and i think that getting at racing is the anwser --- so just maybe that petition will get to someone who cares.
now I am tired of this racing thing --- I do not agree with it and that is my right -- i was born in florida and i grew up with the horror stories from down there -- i DO know that mans greed over rides almost everything thing else in this world and all I want is for these dogs to ALL be treated fairly and with the respect they deserve and if you are in racing then you do know of the poorer kennels and the injustice of these dogs -- I wish they could all have the perfect owners and the perfect kennels -- oh that is right there is no such thing as perfect but there is a word called decent -- so instead of wasting time disagreeing with me get out there and report those bad kennels and help to get greyhound racing to the place it needs to be --- for the respect of the greyhound!!!!!!
Hmm, I had to respond to this one.
Cross-breeding with Labs...I know of a lot of different ones, but never heard of that particular cross. Now where is it that they are doing that?
Just an FYI-some owners do spend money on their dogs-lots of it. They fix breaks the right way, they have "jacuzzi's" for them after races, and they get regular rubdowns. They DO get flea and trick treatment, and shredded newspaper is about the best bed around believe it or not. I guess if we are going to question bedding choices, we should also address why Derby horses are giving hay to bed in, and why my local humane society doesn't use bedding at all-only concrete runs to lie on, which is PROVEN to cripple a dog.
I am not exactly sure the reasoning used on the breeding/extinction points. Greyhounds survive for millenia strictly because they were used for hunting-something that could be done anywhere, all the time, and in great demand. Greyhounds no longer hunt, they can't be let offleash for fear of being hit by a passing car (remember from Bible times until oh, about 100 years ago, there were no cars), and they have lost a large part of the necessity to humans. What happens to things (in society) when humans no longer need them? They wither away...The same holds true for most working animals-most now have been relinquished to the show ring and are (just as you mentioned with the Shar Pei) are a faint shadow of the original breed. Is that what you want to see happen to the Greyhound?
As to inspections and payoffs..get real. This isn't a book or movie-the inspections take place and fines are bestowed as necessary. Are there ones that slip through the cracks? Yep, just like in life, there are those guilty that go unpunished.
You keep mentioning GPA-they are an ADOPTION organization. The NGA is who presides over breedings, registration, etc. I see you went to a few websites too. How many farms have you been to? How many tracks and kennels?? You should get your info from the source, not a second hand account. The NGA has kept track of breedings as far back as I have ever looked. Check out their website sometime.
I was at an event this weekend, and got to play with a load of dogs that stepped off the hauler Saturday-from JCKC. JCKC is a lower end track. Other than the dogs looking a little freaked out because of all the people, new sights, etc, they looked pretty damn good. Some where a little skinny from the haul and from their recent altering, but NOT ONE of them was cowering or afraid of humans, or flea ridden and scarred (other than the scars they give each other!). They were wagging their tails and getting to know their new owners.
Hmm, now where did you get this information? I just spent 30 minutes scouring the GPA-National website, and found none of these statistics. Ya sure that was the GPA website? Maybe it was GPL?? BIG difference.
Edited for spelling
to the breeding of greys -- I think about breeding of all dogs -- I believe the grey has been around with the bible and they were used for hunting -- how niave of people to always say what will happen to the breed -- well i do not think anything -- the grey will be around as all other breeds have been except they are a pure blood breed -- take the charpai -- it was almost gone until a japanese guy called a breeder in the USA to help get one of the few last ones out -- well they snatched up on that and now we have the charpai again but from the earliest of recorded know history our modern day .charpai looks little like the original but our greys do and there will always be some idiot out there to do some kind of cross and then some idiot to buy one.
now on to the farms -- as every person who does think and has been around all this can at anytime go to any paper where kennels and tracks are and find articles dated as little as 2 years ago about the so-called inspections that do not occur -- I went to the new hampshire,florida and arizona websites and found several papers with good and bad (oh yes researching racing shortly after i got my first dog) and they have payoffs just like any other business.
as far as control over the breeding --I believe there is no control now over breeding -- the Gpa has deemed it just a few years ago, maybe four or five, that all pups born now be registared because they did not have any idea how many pups were actually born and at what rate they were being put down -- now fast dog i would bet that not all were put down and i would also say that some friend or a little money would get ya one --- can any breeding be controlled ?
as far as bush --- get real did ya think that everyone thinks that was the right source? NO -- but a lot of us want to make any effort to help the dogs in a big way and i think that getting at racing is the anwser --- so just maybe that petition will get to someone who cares.
now I am tired of this racing thing --- I do not agree with it and that is my right -- i was born in florida and i grew up with the horror stories from down there -- i DO know that mans greed over rides almost everything thing else in this world and all I want is for these dogs to ALL be treated fairly and with the respect they deserve and if you are in racing then you do know of the poorer kennels and the injustice of these dogs -- I wish they could all have the perfect owners and the perfect kennels -- oh that is right there is no such thing as perfect but there is a word called decent -- so instead of wasting time disagreeing with me get out there and report those bad kennels and help to get greyhound racing to the place it needs to be --- for the respect of the greyhound!!!!!!
Hmm, I had to respond to this one.
Cross-breeding with Labs...I know of a lot of different ones, but never heard of that particular cross. Now where is it that they are doing that?
Just an FYI-some owners do spend money on their dogs-lots of it. They fix breaks the right way, they have "jacuzzi's" for them after races, and they get regular rubdowns. They DO get flea and trick treatment, and shredded newspaper is about the best bed around believe it or not. I guess if we are going to question bedding choices, we should also address why Derby horses are giving hay to bed in, and why my local humane society doesn't use bedding at all-only concrete runs to lie on, which is PROVEN to cripple a dog.
I am not exactly sure the reasoning used on the breeding/extinction points. Greyhounds survive for millenia strictly because they were used for hunting-something that could be done anywhere, all the time, and in great demand. Greyhounds no longer hunt, they can't be let offleash for fear of being hit by a passing car (remember from Bible times until oh, about 100 years ago, there were no cars), and they have lost a large part of the necessity to humans. What happens to things (in society) when humans no longer need them? They wither away...The same holds true for most working animals-most now have been relinquished to the show ring and are (just as you mentioned with the Shar Pei) are a faint shadow of the original breed. Is that what you want to see happen to the Greyhound?
As to inspections and payoffs..get real. This isn't a book or movie-the inspections take place and fines are bestowed as necessary. Are there ones that slip through the cracks? Yep, just like in life, there are those guilty that go unpunished.
You keep mentioning GPA-they are an ADOPTION organization. The NGA is who presides over breedings, registration, etc. I see you went to a few websites too. How many farms have you been to? How many tracks and kennels?? You should get your info from the source, not a second hand account. The NGA has kept track of breedings as far back as I have ever looked. Check out their website sometime.
I was at an event this weekend, and got to play with a load of dogs that stepped off the hauler Saturday-from JCKC. JCKC is a lower end track. Other than the dogs looking a little freaked out because of all the people, new sights, etc, they looked pretty damn good. Some where a little skinny from the haul and from their recent altering, but NOT ONE of them was cowering or afraid of humans, or flea ridden and scarred (other than the scars they give each other!). They were wagging their tails and getting to know their new owners.
| QUOTE |
| is the GPA wrong? -- GPA website -- /anwsers to commonly asked questions section ---- "of the 838,426 greys whelped from 86 to 02 ,652,205 were individually registared,a difference of 186,221 young dogs were eliminated from the system before reaching racing age because farm rescue is rare the majority of these are presummed dead." ----- another page on -- know the facts about greyhound racing ----- year --- 2006 litters born --- 3,768 est. # born --- 24,567 dogs individually reg. to race (NGA) --- 22,951 farm puppies culled before racing --- 1,616 can any of us know who is being truthful? i would guess not but what makes sense to me is i do know there is very little mention of puppies and when a group might get one they do get so excited when one gets out --- |
Hmm, now where did you get this information? I just spent 30 minutes scouring the GPA-National website, and found none of these statistics. Ya sure that was the GPA website? Maybe it was GPL?? BIG difference.
Edited for spelling
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ May 5 2008, 05:45 PM) |
| I guess if we are going to question bedding choices, we should also address why Derby horses are giving hay to bed in |
I have a hunch the horsies would smash all that fluffy paper that greyhounds get (it's not really newspaper) before you could say giddy-up.
Dogs (yes, including greyhounds) require a different standard of care than horses do. The only thing the two species have in common is that they both race... that's it!
Jenna
QUOTE (Jenna @ May 5 2008, 07:02 PM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ May 5 2008, 05:45 PM) |
| I guess if we are going to question bedding choices, we should also address why Derby horses are giving hay to bed in |
I have a hunch the horsies would smash all that fluffy paper that greyhounds get (it's not really newspaper) before you could say giddy-up.
Dogs (yes, including greyhounds) require a different standard of care than horses do. The only thing the two species have in common is that they both race... that's it!
Jenna
Ummm, kinda missed the point. Which was...to each animal his own. Horses are given hay-but who is to say that is the best bed for them?? Why not some sort of orthopedic, vetirinarian-approved memory foam? Where is the line drawn? And who is to say that shredded newspaper isn't the perfect bedding, that, as the ad line goes," Nine out of ten greyhounds prefer"??
BTW, we use carpets instead of newspaper. How does that factor in to the equation?
the kennel worker i know at tri-state switches bedding throughout the year... during hot months its carpet... during cold months its paper, it keeps 'em warm... do other race kennels do this?
I think that it is perfectly acceptable for people to voice their "opinions" about anything on a public forum. That is a part of the human condition. We all feel the way we feel based on our personal experiences in life. It's our opinion and we are, of course, entitled to it.
But when people start making accusations in a public forum, they better be sure that they get their facts right.
I just thought that this is a good point to make at this juncture. One would not want to put themselves in legal jeopardy by making claims about something that are not true to generate sympathy or to make themselves look good.
Greyhound racing exists and will continue to exist as long as people care about betting on the dogs. But if the dogs are well cared for and love to run, this should not be considered wrong. The few who do not take care of their dogs should be run out of the business and not be allowed around a greyhound again. Puppy mills will exist as long as people will pull out their wallets to buy the perfect dog and we all know the horror stories about puppy mills and the horrible conditions that exist at some kennels. Those bad people should also be run out of the business and never be allowed to breed dogs again. And the SPCA will exist as long as people will drop off their pets because they do not meet their standards for the perfect pet. Sad to say, but this happens way too often. It's what happens.
Greyhound kennels will be trashed as well as greyhound racing. Greyhounds will be petted out and then be collected back when adopters neglect, abuse them, or decide that they are too busy for them. Or that the dog is too old or too sick to continue being their pet. How are these people any different than those who neglect the dogs at the racing kennels? There is no right and wrong in greyhound racing. The "right and wrong" comes in any setting, whether it's racing, breeding, adopting, etc.
Greyhound rescue/adoption groups will continue to be trashed by people who don't have the slightest idea how much work it takes to do this kind of work. These people will always be around to criticize but they are the ones who won't step up to the plate to actually do the hard work. They just want to let everyone else do the work while they do the critcizing and judging.
For all of you who think that greyhound racing is so bad, what are YOU doing to help each dog find a home? What sacrifices are YOU making other than flapping your jaws about your bad experience? If you care about these dogs as you claim, then what are YOU doing?
But when people start making accusations in a public forum, they better be sure that they get their facts right.
I just thought that this is a good point to make at this juncture. One would not want to put themselves in legal jeopardy by making claims about something that are not true to generate sympathy or to make themselves look good.
Greyhound racing exists and will continue to exist as long as people care about betting on the dogs. But if the dogs are well cared for and love to run, this should not be considered wrong. The few who do not take care of their dogs should be run out of the business and not be allowed around a greyhound again. Puppy mills will exist as long as people will pull out their wallets to buy the perfect dog and we all know the horror stories about puppy mills and the horrible conditions that exist at some kennels. Those bad people should also be run out of the business and never be allowed to breed dogs again. And the SPCA will exist as long as people will drop off their pets because they do not meet their standards for the perfect pet. Sad to say, but this happens way too often. It's what happens.
Greyhound kennels will be trashed as well as greyhound racing. Greyhounds will be petted out and then be collected back when adopters neglect, abuse them, or decide that they are too busy for them. Or that the dog is too old or too sick to continue being their pet. How are these people any different than those who neglect the dogs at the racing kennels? There is no right and wrong in greyhound racing. The "right and wrong" comes in any setting, whether it's racing, breeding, adopting, etc.
Greyhound rescue/adoption groups will continue to be trashed by people who don't have the slightest idea how much work it takes to do this kind of work. These people will always be around to criticize but they are the ones who won't step up to the plate to actually do the hard work. They just want to let everyone else do the work while they do the critcizing and judging.
For all of you who think that greyhound racing is so bad, what are YOU doing to help each dog find a home? What sacrifices are YOU making other than flapping your jaws about your bad experience? If you care about these dogs as you claim, then what are YOU doing?
| QUOTE (Greys4Us @ May 5 2008, 09:10 PM) |
| I think that it is perfectly acceptable for people to voice their "opinions" about anything on a public forum. That is a part of the human condition. We all feel the way we feel based on our personal experiences in life. It's our opinion and we are, of course, entitled to it. But when people start making accusations in a public forum, they better be sure that they get their facts right. I just thought that this is a good point to make at this juncture. One would not want to put themselves in legal jeopardy by making claims about something that are not true to generate sympathy or to make themselves look good. Greyhound racing exists and will continue to exist as long as people care about betting on the dogs. But if the dogs are well cared for and love to run, this should not be considered wrong. The few who do not take care of their dogs should be run out of the business and not be allowed around a greyhound again. Puppy mills will exist as long as people will pull out their wallets to buy the perfect dog and we all know the horror stories about puppy mills and the horrible conditions that exist at some kennels. Those bad people should also be run out of the business and never be allowed to breed dogs again. And the SPCA will exist as long as people will drop off their pets because they do not meet their standards for the perfect pet. Sad to say, but this happens way too often. It's what happens. Greyhound kennels will be trashed as well as greyhound racing. Greyhounds will be petted out and then be collected back when adopters neglect, abuse them, or decide that they are too busy for them. Or that the dog is too old or too sick to continue being their pet. How are these people any different than those who neglect the dogs at the racing kennels? There is no right and wrong in greyhound racing. The "right and wrong" comes in any setting, whether it's racing, breeding, adopting, etc. Greyhound rescue/adoption groups will continue to be trashed by people who don't have the slightest idea how much work it takes to do this kind of work. These people will always be around to criticize but they are the ones who won't step up to the plate to actually do the hard work. They just want to let everyone else do the work while they do the critcizing and judging. For all of you who think that greyhound racing is so bad, what are YOU doing to help each dog find a home? What sacrifices are YOU making other than flapping your jaws about your bad experience? If you care about these dogs as you claim, then what are YOU doing? |
It's the people factor that gets everything screwed up, racing and adoption just suck sometimes because of it and it will always be that way as long as people are involved.
| QUOTE (Greys4Us @ May 5 2008, 08:10 PM) |
But when people start making accusations in a public forum, they better be sure that they get their facts right... ... The few who do not take care of their dogs should be run out of the business and not be allowed around a greyhound again. |
I am not campaigning to end greyhound racing but if you consider the number of dogs still being put down, you gotta know they are owned by more than just a few.
I don't believe in trivializing something this serious and I will never, ever, ever agree that it's "just the way it is" n