I heard where some male greyhounds where put down. These males where getting ready to be sent out for adoption.
So, the industry is better and they don't put down greyhounds anymore.
I don't believe what you insiders say.
Full Version: Male Greys Put To Sleep
| QUOTE (allforgreys @ Mar 29 2008, 11:49 AM) |
| I heard where some male greyhounds where put down. These males where getting ready to be sent out for adoption. So, the industry is better and they don't put down greyhounds anymore. I don't believe what you insiders say. |
Yep and it's a real shame. Unfortunately at the lower end tracks the pet kennels get overloaded with males, especially no cat males. If the pet kennel gets overloaded with dogs that none of the other groups will take then the whole program comes to a halt.
Why don't you have a talk with all the AR pet groups and tell them to help out Pam by taking a load of no cat males. Mr. AR Philly is one of the cherry pickers, why doesn't he take some black and brindle no cat males from Pam? Tell you what, you talk him into taking 10-15 black and brindle no cat males and I'll personally drop them off to him, free of charge.
Now that's what I call utilizing all the available resources. 'Bout time!
Jenna
Jenna
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 02:55 PM) |
| Now that's what I call utilizing all the available resources. 'Bout time! Jenna |
I do runs all the time to AR groups, even done some to Philly. If the kennels are giving them dogs then that's their fault for shooting themselves in the foot with their own dogs. I had a chance to send dogs to Philly when I was closing my kennel down, I had the dogs all profiled and everything. I could of saved alot of money that I didn't have at the time by sending dogs to there, I just wouldn't do it. That's just me and the rules that I live by.
I do, however, suggest that any kennel or owner that wants to send dogs to AR groups should check out the things that they say about the industry at their M&G's and gatherings, that's what changed my mind about sending AR groups dogs. Just information for them to ponder.
QUOTE (xracers @ Mar 29 2008, 04:27 PM)
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 02:55 PM) |
| Now that's what I call utilizing all the available resources. 'Bout time! Jenna |
I do runs all the time to AR groups, even done some to Philly. If the kennels are giving them dogs then that's their fault for shooting themselves in the foot with their own dogs. I had a chance to send dogs to Philly when I was closing my kennel down, I had the dogs all profiled and everything. I could of saved alot of money that I didn't have at the time by sending dogs to there, I just wouldn't do it. That's just me and the rules that I live by.
I do, however, suggest that any kennel or owner that wants to send dogs to AR groups should check out the things that they say about the industry at their M&G's and gatherings, that's what changed my mind about sending AR groups dogs. Just information for them to ponder.
I guess we can't save all the racing dogs just like you can't save all the dogs and cats in the shelters and pounds who don't find homes. It's just worse cause these are greyhounds being killed.
QUOTE (xracers @ Mar 29 2008, 03:27 PM)
I had a chance to send dogs to Philly when I was closing my kennel down, I had the dogs all profiled and everything. I could of saved alot of money that I didn't have at the time by sending dogs to there, I just wouldn't do it. That's just me and the rules that I live by.
So where did you send your dogs instead?
| QUOTE |
| I do runs all the time to AR groups, even done some to Philly. If the kennels are giving them dogs then that's their fault for shooting themselves in the foot with their own dogs. |
But isn't that better than shooting the dogs?
| QUOTE |
I do, however, suggest that any kennel or owner that wants to send dogs to AR groups should check out the things that they say about the industry at their M&G's and gatherings, that's what changed my mind about sending AR groups dogs. Just information for them to ponder. |
Okay, but we are talking about a situation where the groups they would normally use are full. So, unless they can come to some agreement with these AR groups (which I think would be worth a shot) what is the point in going just to change their minds about using them? Won't that mean their dogs will have to die instead?
Is this the reason the other dogs were killed? Because the kennels didn't like AR adoption group's or were those groups filled up too?
Jenn
QUOTE (Jenna @ Mar 29 2008, 10:02 PM)
| QUOTE (xracers @ Mar 29 2008, 03:27 PM) |
I had a chance to send dogs to Philly when I was closing my kennel down, I had the dogs all profiled and everything. I could of saved alot of money that I didn't have at the time by sending dogs to there, I just wouldn't do it. That's just me and the rules that I live by. |
So where did you send your dogs instead?
| QUOTE |
| I do runs all the time to AR groups, even done some to Philly. If the kennels are giving them dogs then that's their fault for shooting themselves in the foot with their own dogs. |
But isn't that better than shooting the dogs?
| QUOTE |
I do, however, suggest that any kennel or owner that wants to send dogs to AR groups should check out the things that they say about the industry at their M&G's and gatherings, that's what changed my mind about sending AR groups dogs. Just information for them to ponder. |
Okay, but we are talking about a situation where the groups they would normally use are full. So, unless they can come to some agreement with these AR groups (which I think would be worth a shot) what is the point in going just to change their minds about using them? Won't that mean their dogs will have to die instead?
Is this the reason the other dogs were killed? Because the kennels didn't like AR adoption group's or were those groups filled up too?
Jenn
I held onto them and 3 of the local groups got them. They set up runs with their groups up north and I ran my butt off all up and down the east coast taking my pets and other kennels pets to groups up north like VAGA, Blue Ridge, CV greys, Poconos Greyhound Adoption and some NY groups. I gave them 5 months notice that I was going to close, told them that I would do anything that I could to help them out. I still do anything that I can to help them out. We all worked together to get all 107 of my guys out and a ton of dogs from the other kennels out. Wait, I lied, I ended up having to bring 6 of my dogs to my house to wait for homes- they were hard to place dogs, one of them was here for 2 yrs. before we could find a home for her and I kept one of them because she is so active and high prey that I feel safer with her here with me. All 6 of my dogs here are hard to place dogs, they all get along great and I wouldn't know what to do without them.
If I can make sure that my dogs got homes, then so can any other kennel. No kennels that I know at that track that I was at shoot dogs. They used to put them down (ethically) left and right but that has stopped now. That's why the adoption groups there are getting so many hard to place dogs now- those were the ones they were putting down before.
Most kennels don't care who they are giving their dogs to, as long as they clear a spot for the next new dog..... it didn't used to be like that.
If they really cared about their dogs getting homes and not using AR groups then they can do just like I did, talk to the local groups, send the dogs of the kennels that don't care to the AR groups and send mine to neutral groups.
Those dogs weren't put down because they didn't want to send them to AR groups.
Thank you. 
Jenna
Jenna
There's plenty of other kennel owners, trainers and dog owners out there that do the same things that I do and did to get their pets homes. It's what we believe in, we're no angels we just do what we have to to get our pets homes.
Back when the track I was at had a huge problem with petting dogs out, the kennels would literally get mad at a kennel that gave a pet group too many hard to place dogs because they didn't want the groups to have to sit on HTP dogs and take up the limited spaces that the groups had for the "easy" ones. It was a sad reality but they were right, bog down the pet groups with HTP dogs and far fewer dogs will get homes. If you show a pet person a HTP dog are they going to take it? Yes. They want to take every dog they can, it's the way they are.
Pam is already overloaded with males, mostly no cat, that she can't find homes for as it is, why would they want to give her more? That would use up the spots that could be filled with cat friendly females that she can find groups to take.
Sorry, that's just reality at a low end track, there should be way more focus and money put into adoption at the low end tracks. That's where most of the pets are.
Back when the track I was at had a huge problem with petting dogs out, the kennels would literally get mad at a kennel that gave a pet group too many hard to place dogs because they didn't want the groups to have to sit on HTP dogs and take up the limited spaces that the groups had for the "easy" ones. It was a sad reality but they were right, bog down the pet groups with HTP dogs and far fewer dogs will get homes. If you show a pet person a HTP dog are they going to take it? Yes. They want to take every dog they can, it's the way they are.
Pam is already overloaded with males, mostly no cat, that she can't find homes for as it is, why would they want to give her more? That would use up the spots that could be filled with cat friendly females that she can find groups to take.
Sorry, that's just reality at a low end track, there should be way more focus and money put into adoption at the low end tracks. That's where most of the pets are.
I have been involved in greyhound rescue before and have an NGA oops litter boy.
So my question is... Where are the people who are breeding all of these dogs? Why should adoption agencies be responsible for placing these dogs when they didn't bring them into the world?? Maybe every breeder should be made to take responsibility for their own dogs.
So my question is... Where are the people who are breeding all of these dogs? Why should adoption agencies be responsible for placing these dogs when they didn't bring them into the world?? Maybe every breeder should be made to take responsibility for their own dogs.
| QUOTE (jrhenrico @ Jun 17 2008, 11:41 PM) |
| I have been involved in greyhound rescue before and have an NGA oops litter boy. So my question is... Where are the people who are breeding all of these dogs? Why should adoption agencies be responsible for placing these dogs when they didn't bring them into the world?? Maybe every breeder should be made to take responsibility for their own dogs. |
You're absolutely right- let's stop right now and let all the owners pet out their own dogs.
Who is MAKING you pet out their dogs? Last time I looked a 501c3 was a volunteer thing- volunteering services to help out the dogs. Are you not a volunteer? If you don't want to help then don't- no one is making anyone do anything.
The owners are looking for help in petting out their dogs. They don't have a network set up to do that all over the country, that's why adoption groups exist.
| QUOTE (jrhenrico @ Jun 17 2008, 10:41 PM) |
| I have been involved in greyhound rescue before and have an NGA oops litter boy. So my question is... Where are the people who are breeding all of these dogs? Why should adoption agencies be responsible for placing these dogs when they didn't bring them into the world?? Maybe every breeder should be made to take responsibility for their own dogs. |
I think xracers answered you pretty well as far as the adoption groups not being forced to do anything. It's out of love and commitment.
However you do ask a legitimate question "Where are the breeders of all these dogs?"
Well they are all over the country. Get yourself a copy of the Greyhound Review and you will see.
Just remember that they are the "Breeders" and not necessarily the owners. The breeders sell most of their dogs. Not always, depending on the breeder, but alot are sold. The ultimate decision on the disposition of a dog when it is done racing lies in the hands of the owner.
"You're absolutely right- let's stop right now and let all the owners pet out their own dogs.
Who is MAKING you pet out their dogs? Last time I looked a 501c3 was a volunteer thing- volunteering services to help out the dogs. Are you not a volunteer? If you don't want to help then don't- no one is making anyone do anything.
The owners are looking for help in petting out their dogs. They don't have a network set up to do that all over the country, that's why adoption groups exist."
There is no reason to be snide, I didn't say that those who wish to help these dogs should stop. What I'm saying is, when a breeder breds a dog, whether or not they sell the dog, they are responsible for that dog. When I breed a litter of puppies, I'm responsible for them for life. When I sell a pup, there is a contract that the pups must "not" be turned over to the pound or a rescue group. I want to know where my pups are. If the owner can't take care of them, then they come back to me and "I" take care of them.
This is suppose to be the difference between responsible and irresponsible breeders.
So, once again, I ask... Where are the breeders?
Who is MAKING you pet out their dogs? Last time I looked a 501c3 was a volunteer thing- volunteering services to help out the dogs. Are you not a volunteer? If you don't want to help then don't- no one is making anyone do anything.
The owners are looking for help in petting out their dogs. They don't have a network set up to do that all over the country, that's why adoption groups exist."
There is no reason to be snide, I didn't say that those who wish to help these dogs should stop. What I'm saying is, when a breeder breds a dog, whether or not they sell the dog, they are responsible for that dog. When I breed a litter of puppies, I'm responsible for them for life. When I sell a pup, there is a contract that the pups must "not" be turned over to the pound or a rescue group. I want to know where my pups are. If the owner can't take care of them, then they come back to me and "I" take care of them.
This is suppose to be the difference between responsible and irresponsible breeders.
So, once again, I ask... Where are the breeders?
| QUOTE (jrhenrico @ Jun 19 2008, 05:55 PM) |
There is no reason to be snide, I didn't say that those who wish to help these dogs should stop. What I'm saying is, when a breeder breds a dog, whether or not they sell the dog, they are responsible for that dog. When I breed a litter of puppies, I'm responsible for them for life. When I sell a pup, there is a contract that the pups must "not" be turned over to the pound or a rescue group. I want to know where my pups are. If the owner can't take care of them, then they come back to me and "I" take care of them. This is suppose to be the difference between responsible and irresponsible breeders. So, once again, I ask... Where are the breeders? |
The dogs are the responsibility of the owners in the eyes of the NGA. The breeders are not doing the breeding speculatively- they are using the broods that are owned by the owners to breed. The owner of a brood sees a stud he would like to bred the brood to and sends her off to the breeder to get it done. The breeders are providing a service for the owner of the brood and the owner of the stud. They are just the middleman providing service to the owner of the brood and the owner of the stud. They have no ownership to the dogs that they are breeding unless they own the dog anyways- which is not the case most of the time.
Ahh I understand... so when a litter is bred, who is responsible for the litter? The owner of the bitch or the dog or both? Do they write up a contract? How is the NGA suppose to make sure that the owners are taking care of their dogs the way they should be?
So, if I had a bitch I wanted bred, I would send her to a farm, contact the owner of the stud I wanted to breed to, let the farm manager breed, whelp and raise my pups. Then I would put them through training and those that ran well, I would keep in training, but those who didn't run well, I would find homes for. Now the owner becomes the breeder, just like in the private sector, so when these dogs are left in a kennel after a kennel is closed, are the owners contacted and asked to find homes for their dogs? Or do they just automatically put them in a rescue? Are the owners ever held responsible when their dogs are put to sleep?
So, if I had a bitch I wanted bred, I would send her to a farm, contact the owner of the stud I wanted to breed to, let the farm manager breed, whelp and raise my pups. Then I would put them through training and those that ran well, I would keep in training, but those who didn't run well, I would find homes for. Now the owner becomes the breeder, just like in the private sector, so when these dogs are left in a kennel after a kennel is closed, are the owners contacted and asked to find homes for their dogs? Or do they just automatically put them in a rescue? Are the owners ever held responsible when their dogs are put to sleep?
| QUOTE (allforgreys @ Mar 29 2008, 10:49 AM) |
| I heard where some male greyhounds where put down. These males where getting ready to be sent out for adoption. So, the industry is better and they don't put down greyhounds anymore. I don't believe what you insiders say. |
Not much has changed at many tracks. Think about how many times this happens and the word never gets out.
| QUOTE (jrhenrico @ Jun 19 2008, 07:40 PM) |
| Ahh I understand... so when a litter is bred, who is responsible for the litter? The owner of the bitch or the dog or both? Do they write up a contract? How is the NGA suppose to make sure that the owners are taking care of their dogs the way they should be? So, if I had a bitch I wanted bred, I would send her to a farm, contact the owner of the stud I wanted to breed to, let the farm manager breed, whelp and raise my pups. Then I would put them through training and those that ran well, I would keep in training, but those who didn't run well, I would find homes for. Now the owner becomes the breeder, just like in the private sector, so when these dogs are left in a kennel after a kennel is closed, are the owners contacted and asked to find homes for their dogs? Or do they just automatically put them in a rescue? Are the owners ever held responsible when their dogs are put to sleep? |
The owner of the bitch is responsible for the litter. Basically the owner of the stud sells the semen to the owner of the bitch- the owner of the bitch gets all the pups unless a deal is made for a pup or two for reduced stud fees, that does happen on occasion. The breeder is just the person that insemenates the dog.
When a kennel closes it is the responsibility of the kennel owner to contact the owners about the dogs.
It is the responsibility of the owner to decide whether to pet the dog out or to put them down. It doesn't always work like that though. I've seen dogs get put down that were not supposed to be put down, and I've seen dogs that were supposed to be put down that get petted out. When I had my kennel I made it clear that no dogs were going to be sent back to the owner to be put down- all dogs that entered my kennel would be petted out when it was time to retire. If they didn't like that then they could put them in someone elses kennel.
Remember all owners do have the right to put down their dogs if they want to- just like you or me do.
Interesting discussion!
This is very eye opening. So there are farm operators and kennel operators and trainers? What role does each play when it comes to deciding what happens to a dog after its career is over?
Say, if I had some pups born on the farm and one was too small to think about racing, if I as the owner say, I don't want the pup, does the farm manager then have to find a home for the pup? What about if the dog doesn't make it past the trainers, is the trainer then responsible? I know you said that you wouldn't allow any dogs to be put down when you owned a kennel, but do the farm managers and trainers get to make those same decisions?
I often wondered about owners versus breeders. I know a lady who runs a farm, but she has always said the pups weren't hers. I was confused about that.
I have another question... Say I purchased a female to breed. Would I have to send her to a farm to have her pups or could I have them at my home and then send them to a trainers? Is it a rule they have to go to a farm?
Also, if I have pups that don't make it past the trainers, could I have those pups sent back to me for placement myself??
I would still feel responsible for all the pups that I owned. I don't think I could leave the kennel manager, farm manager or trainers to deal with my pups.
Say, if I had some pups born on the farm and one was too small to think about racing, if I as the owner say, I don't want the pup, does the farm manager then have to find a home for the pup? What about if the dog doesn't make it past the trainers, is the trainer then responsible? I know you said that you wouldn't allow any dogs to be put down when you owned a kennel, but do the farm managers and trainers get to make those same decisions?
I often wondered about owners versus breeders. I know a lady who runs a farm, but she has always said the pups weren't hers. I was confused about that.
I have another question... Say I purchased a female to breed. Would I have to send her to a farm to have her pups or could I have them at my home and then send them to a trainers? Is it a rule they have to go to a farm?
Also, if I have pups that don't make it past the trainers, could I have those pups sent back to me for placement myself??
I would still feel responsible for all the pups that I owned. I don't think I could leave the kennel manager, farm manager or trainers to deal with my pups.
| QUOTE (jrhenrico @ Jun 19 2008, 10:46 PM) |
| This is very eye opening. So there are farm operators and kennel operators and trainers? What role does each play when it comes to deciding what happens to a dog after its career is over? Say, if I had some pups born on the farm and one was too small to think about racing, if I as the owner say, I don't want the pup, does the farm manager then have to find a home for the pup? What about if the dog doesn't make it past the trainers, is the trainer then responsible? I know you said that you wouldn't allow any dogs to be put down when you owned a kennel, but do the farm managers and trainers get to make those same decisions? I often wondered about owners versus breeders. I know a lady who runs a farm, but she has always said the pups weren't hers. I was confused about that. I have another question... Say I purchased a female to breed. Would I have to send her to a farm to have her pups or could I have them at my home and then send them to a trainers? Is it a rule they have to go to a farm? Also, if I have pups that don't make it past the trainers, could I have those pups sent back to me for placement myself?? I would still feel responsible for all the pups that I owned. I don't think I could leave the kennel manager, farm manager or trainers to deal with my pups. |
I'll try to answer in order.
The responsibility of the dog is the owners. If a dog was in the kennel that I owned then the dog was going to be petted out- if the owner wanted it anyother way then I would not take the dog. Guess I took all the deciding out of it for the owners. Like I said, if they don't like it then put the dog in another kennel. I was my own business and that's the way I ran it- if others do different then that's the way they CHOOSE to run their business.
The farmers and the kennel people work with the adoption groups to get the dog petted out for the owners. Some owners take the dog back to pet them out themselves, some keep their dogs as pets, some ask adoption people to help them pet the dog out.
Most of the breedings are not natural breedings anymore. One of the breeding farms even claims that they can give you all girls in the litter or all boys in the litter if that's what you want. Most owners send their bitches to a breeder to have them bred then put them on a farm. It's not a rule that you have to have the dog at a farm but they are landsharks and will destroy your house! Get a group of those little suckers together and they'll tear up everything in sight. Besides they get trained pretty early on to race with each other in the runs. Some farms even have their runs kind of sloped so the dogs build up their muscles.
| QUOTE (xracers @ Jun 20 2008, 02:18 AM) |
| The responsibility of the dog is the owners..... |
Then how did a kennel of males get killed at JCKC?
And rather than start a new thread : Can you shed light on the SOKC kennel that denied a dog vet care and it died?
QUOTE (FastRunner @ Jun 21 2008, 11:24 PM)
| QUOTE (xracers @ Jun 20 2008, 02:18 AM) |
| The responsibility of the dog is the owners..... |
Then how did a kennel of males get killed at JCKC?
And rather than start a new thread : Can you shed light on the SOKC kennel that denied a dog vet care and it died?
I guess it must have been ok with the owners that the dogs were put down.
The SOKC dog is still under investigation, since I'm part of the investigation I really can't comment now but you can bet that I'll have many comments when it's over! I'll give you the goods when I can.
QUOTE (xracers @ Jun 22 2008, 06:09 PM)
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Jun 21 2008, 11:24 PM) | ||
Then how did a kennel of males get killed at JCKC? And rather than start a new thread : Can you shed light on the SOKC kennel that denied a dog vet care and it died? |
I guess it must have been ok with the owners that the dogs were put down.
The SOKC dog is still under investigation, since I'm part of the investigation I really can't comment now but you can bet that I'll have many comments when it's over! I'll give you the goods when I can.
I'll bet you a new car that if the owners of these dogs were contacted today and asked about this, more than a few would not even know their dog was in Florida let alone put down. I might even be willing to go double or nothing that more than one would say they were told the dog was petted out.
I look forward to hearing what you have to say about the situation at SOKC.
| QUOTE (FastRunner @ Jun 22 2008, 11:22 PM) |
I look forward to hearing what you have to say about the situation at SOKC. |
Me too.
This did happen at the time that they were rebooking kennels, they did not rebook this kennel.
| QUOTE (xracers @ Jun 24 2008, 11:02 AM) |
| This did happen at the time that they were rebooking kennels, they did not rebook this kennel. |
Are you speaking of SOKC or JCKC ?
The JCKC one was closing anyways, they did not rebook the SOKC kennel.