What is your thoughts on this article I came across.
Published: Saturday, Jun. 30, 2007
The legislation banning greyhound racing in New Hampshire did not pass this year. So the suffering and cruelty inherent in the greyhound industry continues unabated.
Thousands of dogs nationwide are still being killed each year, many culled from litters because of lack of racing potential; other dogs due to failure to show a profit at the track.
Many dogs are still sold to research laboratories to endure painful cardiac and other types of experiments. Still other dogs are sold overseas . . . In the United States, mass graves have been found all over the country of these gentle dogs bludgeoned over the head and dumped one on top of the other.
Yes, some are adopted into homes. But there are already literally millions of other types of dogs in pounds, shelters and rescue organizations nationwide desperately needing homes. It is obscene to add to their numbers.
The dogs forced to race at the tracks live anything but idyllic lives. They spend the majority of each day in small crates with minimal human contact, except for racing and training.
People adopting former racing dogs often notice their inability to play or climb stairs and their urine-stained hindquarters from being crated for long periods of time. It frequently takes hours to get racing-discarded dogs into adoptable condition as they are often loaded with fleas, ticks and other parasites.
Another effective way to stop the abuse occurring in the racing industry besides legislation is to educate the public about what really goes on behind the scenes so people will boycott all greyhound racing. If you patronize a dog track for any reason, you are supporting dog racing.
To learn what you can do to help greyhounds, phone 224-1361. The good news is that revenues from all New Hampshire dog tracks are decreasing significantly each year as a larger segment of the public takes its gambling dollars elsewhere.
Barbara Bonsignore
Concord
Full Version: Learn what goes on in greyhound racing
"Another effective way to stop the abuse occurring in the racing industry besides legislation is to educate the public learn for yourself about what really goes on behind the scenes."
Jenna
Jenna
When I first started doing my months and months of research about greyhounds prior to ever owning, I came across TONS of this kind of stuff. Imagine my surprise when I finally found a couple greyhound discussion boards (months after finally getting two rascally greyhound pups), that not everyone was rabidly anti-racing. In fact, there were a bunch of racing kennel folks on these boards. And I noticed that a vast majority of people writing these anti-racing articles/diatribes didn't have hounds themselves, or at least they never mentioned having rescued any personally.
I don't live anywhere near a track, or in a state where they have racing, so I have absolutely no first hand experience with the sport, but I do have a couple suspicions about it as a whole. One is that, yeah, there are probably a few complete a$$holes out there that don't care about the safety and wellbeing of the animals, that to them the dogs are just a commodity, and that two, there are a lot of folks in the industry who love and care about these incredible animals and want to see the sport be the best it can be.
If anyone reading this has read my post about sled dog racing in Alaska, then you know I'm a proponent of competitive sports with dogs. I just believe that because we have the big brains and the opposable thumbs it's our responsibility to do it right.
I don't live anywhere near a track, or in a state where they have racing, so I have absolutely no first hand experience with the sport, but I do have a couple suspicions about it as a whole. One is that, yeah, there are probably a few complete a$$holes out there that don't care about the safety and wellbeing of the animals, that to them the dogs are just a commodity, and that two, there are a lot of folks in the industry who love and care about these incredible animals and want to see the sport be the best it can be.
If anyone reading this has read my post about sled dog racing in Alaska, then you know I'm a proponent of competitive sports with dogs. I just believe that because we have the big brains and the opposable thumbs it's our responsibility to do it right.
It's an opinion letter by someone who's part of the NH animal rights league. She sent this same letter to a variety of publications. Much of it looks to be right off the GPL website.
I totally agree 100% with this article.
all i can say is blah nothing less nothing more just blah
This article is just talking about the same stuff, nothing new. It's not like that now and there are less and less few bad apples.
These people need to go visit a kennel, get a tour, talk to the trainers, then maybe they would change their views instead of just reading this propaganda.
These people need to go visit a kennel, get a tour, talk to the trainers, then maybe they would change their views instead of just reading this propaganda.
QUOTE (dad2paisley @ Jul 4 2007, 10:37 PM)
Yes, some are adopted into homes. But there are already literally millions of other types of dogs in pounds, shelters and rescue organizations nationwide desperately needing homes. It is obscene to add to their numbers.
This particular argument has actually migrated over from more general animal rights camps: that no one should be breeding dogs intentionally because there's a lot of dogs dying in shelters, but I guess I don't see the logic.
If you assume that dogs are interchangeable, that one is as suitable to a given situation as another, then sure.
But I guess I don't buy into that logic.
As I've stated elsewhere, I consider responsible breeding part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Minimal human contact produces dogs who are generally as well-socialized and handleable as the average greyhound off a track? Dog psychology doesn't work like that.
And don't forget that they can't sit, either!
Dogs who are crated long enough to restrict their movement win LOTS of money at the track, that's for sure!
This particular argument has actually migrated over from more general animal rights camps: that no one should be breeding dogs intentionally because there's a lot of dogs dying in shelters, but I guess I don't see the logic.
If you assume that dogs are interchangeable, that one is as suitable to a given situation as another, then sure.
But I guess I don't buy into that logic.
As I've stated elsewhere, I consider responsible breeding part of the solution, not part of the problem.
| QUOTE |
| The dogs forced to race at the tracks live anything but idyllic lives. They spend the majority of each day in small crates with minimal human contact, except for racing and training. |
Minimal human contact produces dogs who are generally as well-socialized and handleable as the average greyhound off a track? Dog psychology doesn't work like that.
| QUOTE |
| People adopting former racing dogs often notice their inability to play or climb stairs and their urine-stained hindquarters from being crated for long periods of time. |
And don't forget that they can't sit, either!
Dogs who are crated long enough to restrict their movement win LOTS of money at the track, that's for sure!
You know, I started a long, point-by-point rebuttal to this article, and then I realized that anyone that is ignorant enough to believe this crap isn't going to listen to the truth anyway.
Oh, and by the way, if you ARE one of those people, I've got a great deal for you on some land in Florida....
Oh, and by the way, if you ARE one of those people, I've got a great deal for you on some land in Florida....
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Jul 6 2007, 06:07 PM) |
| You know, I started a long, point-by-point rebuttal to this article, and then I realized that anyone that is ignorant enough to believe this crap isn't going to listen to the truth anyway. Oh, and by the way, if you ARE one of those people, I've got a great deal for you on some land in Florida.... |
Thanks for saving the paper and our time reading your blinded perspective.
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ Jul 6 2007, 06:07 PM) |
| You know, I started a long, point-by-point rebuttal to this article, and then I realized that anyone that is ignorant enough to believe this crap isn't going to listen to the truth anyway. |
I should know better, but I can't help myself sometimes.
Well it's interesting they print this anti greyhound letter from a brainwashed old kook - but you rarely see OTHER letters from the many kooks out there. Newspapers get these all the time. Most of them go in the round file.
I don't see how her letter is any different from some anti abortion activist, going on and on about dead babies etc etc.??
I don't see how her letter is any different from some anti abortion activist, going on and on about dead babies etc etc.??
I agree with greydaddy 100% As you know negative news always get the attention, just watch your local news one night. May be things like that happened 30 years ago, but times have changed for the better. When I was in college and I was taking a psych. class, we were taught to get all the information, not just one side of a person's view, before making a judgement. Greyhound racing is a sport and the dogs are treated very good. The owners are not going to invest thousands into a dog and then abuse them. The trainers, handlers love these dogs. If you have questions then go see for yourself and ask questions, that is the only way one learns. Most people who write these negative stuff really don't know, they need to do better research, they just get on the band wagon, well, its time to get off and see things the way the are.
Wow - what an amazing article. I've never heard any of that before!! Excuse me while I run over to Wikipedia and paste this in...
... seriously if the ARs want me to pay attention they might want to try something new, I am getting bored with them fast. I saw a movie like this once it involved zombies 
.Maybe they should actually meet a retired racer before they form an opinion.It would be interesting to find out how many of the really vocal ARs have volunteered at a kennel or have a retired racer ... my guess would be less than 5%.
Tara
QUOTE (shalea)
As I've stated elsewhere, I consider responsible breeding part of the solution, not part of the problem.
I agree with this but it don't feel that any dog should be bred for only 5 years of use. IMHO, responsible breeding would be for a purpose or (purposes) that would extend the dog's entire natural life.
| QUOTE |
| dogs who are crated long enough to restrict their movement win LOTS of money at the track, that's for sure! |
I think this argument only proves why racing dogs are cared for properly but what about the point in which they stop winning money? What reasons would the majority of owners have for providing them with the same care until they reach adoption groups? And how can anyone be confident that most or all of them operate the same as those few we have personally met?
If there are greyhounds being mistreated or neglected anywhere, I don't say "blah" or just chalk it up to the infamous few bad apples. I think those dogs are just as important to learn about as the ones who receive excellent care. Not to say this article is the best source to use, but unless I know for sure that problems simply don't exist, I am open to hearing about them and willing to help in any way I can.
Tara, the really vocal AR's don't claim to be rescue or adoption volunteers. In fact, some of them have come right out and said they don't support adoption because it aids the racing industry. I may not agree with their views but I wouldn't expect to see a large percentage of them actively involved in this area.
Jenna
OK - how many of us are reading the "L"? Raise your hands.
How many are feeling as guilty as I am watching Carey Theil continue to cite Wikipedia? At first it was just funny, but now I am starting to feel bad for her. It's kind of like watching some fellow do stand-up comedy with his fly down... Maybe one of you guys who lean toward AR could let her know that Wikipedia is not an academic source, and is not accepted as a source much beyond 3rd grade - since it is authored by anyone who feels compelled to type something in. Heck, I could go up there right now and author something really convincing against greyhound racing and chances are she'd be quoting me by next week. She is on the "L" and earnestly trying to get her points across - but every time she quotes Wikipedia the tittering begins at the back of the cyber-room. I suppose I should have just kept my mouth shut - but the teacher in me can't do it. BTW - someone did try to tell her earlier in the week, but she just keeps going with the Wikipedia thing <sigh.>
How many are feeling as guilty as I am watching Carey Theil continue to cite Wikipedia? At first it was just funny, but now I am starting to feel bad for her. It's kind of like watching some fellow do stand-up comedy with his fly down... Maybe one of you guys who lean toward AR could let her know that Wikipedia is not an academic source, and is not accepted as a source much beyond 3rd grade - since it is authored by anyone who feels compelled to type something in. Heck, I could go up there right now and author something really convincing against greyhound racing and chances are she'd be quoting me by next week. She is on the "L" and earnestly trying to get her points across - but every time she quotes Wikipedia the tittering begins at the back of the cyber-room. I suppose I should have just kept my mouth shut - but the teacher in me can't do it. BTW - someone did try to tell her earlier in the week, but she just keeps going with the Wikipedia thing <sigh.>
Okay I feel really stupid but what is the "L"? Am I missing some really good entertainment?
Tara
Tara
Right now you are, Tara. Greyhound-L is probably the original greyhound forum - it predates nifty gui interfaces and is merely a compilation of e-mails sent to an address within a day's time. You subscribe to it and it delivers a newsletter full of messages to your e-mail once a day or so. Just Google Greyhound-L and join up.
Ok Judi, what are nifty gui interfaces? <he he>
I have gotten behind in reading the GH-L digests but I'll check it out (definitely in lurk mode though.)
If I am not mistaken, Carey Theil is a he, not a she.
Jenna
I have gotten behind in reading the GH-L digests but I'll check it out (definitely in lurk mode though.)
If I am not mistaken, Carey Theil is a he, not a she.
Jenna
Theil is a he. He use to be a member my original EG board but he was out numbered even though I had a bunch of strong AR's on the board at that time.
He does own a grey but I just wish he would give some of his lobbying money to greyhounds and towards adoption groups but he seems to always avoid answering those questions.
Here is a picture of him.
He does own a grey but I just wish he would give some of his lobbying money to greyhounds and towards adoption groups but he seems to always avoid answering those questions.
Here is a picture of him.
| QUOTE (JudiK @ Jul 31 2007, 02:01 PM) |
| OK - how many of us are reading the "L"? Raise your hands. How many are feeling as guilty as I am watching Carey Theil continue to cite Wikipedia? At first it was just funny, but now I am starting to feel bad for her. It's kind of like watching some fellow do stand-up comedy with his fly down... Maybe one of you guys who lean toward AR could let her know that Wikipedia is not an academic source, and is not accepted as a source much beyond 3rd grade - since it is authored by anyone who feels compelled to type something in. Heck, I could go up there right now and author something really convincing against greyhound racing and chances are she'd be quoting me by next week. She is on the "L" and earnestly trying to get her points across - but every time she quotes Wikipedia the tittering begins at the back of the cyber-room. I suppose I should have just kept my mouth shut - but the teacher in me can't do it. BTW - someone did try to tell her earlier in the week, but she just keeps going with the Wikipedia thing <sigh.> |
Carey Theil is a guy, he's the head of Grey2K. He's uses Wiki because it backs up whatever bizarre point he is making at the moment. He's never been one to let facts (or the lack thereof)get in the way of pontificating. A whole lot of people swallow whatever he says as gospel and wouldn't dream of checking his statements out.
So it's not so much a matter of the poor guy being stupid - it's more a matter of him thinking that we are stupid?
| QUOTE (JudiK @ Aug 1 2007, 10:11 AM) |
| So it's not so much a matter of the poor guy being stupid - it's more a matter of him thinking that we are stupid? |
You get the gold medal on that one
Your right, D2P, he never did answer any questions, just a lot of quoted stuff.
But, he was polite.
Yes, he was polite and never got nasty.
QUOTE (Jenna @ Jul 31 2007, 05:03 AM)
I agree with this but it don't feel that any dog should be bred for only 5 years of use. IMHO, responsible breeding would be for a purpose or (purposes) that would extend the dog's entire natural life.
Absolutely. Do you consider that greyhounds are only bred for five years of use? On what are you basing that?
Well, considering the inspections by and penalties from the NGA if a racing owner or trainer doesn't provide adequate care, the loss of their license to work ought to be a pretty good deterrent.
I'm sure you're not implying that anyone here doesn't care about those greyhounds who are neglected or mistreated, or that anyone is claiming that every single greyhound in racing is taken care of appropriately. I personally believe that the way to help those greyhounds who aren't is to work with the large numbers of people within the industry who DO care, rather than assuming that there are dog skeletons hidden in every closet as Grey2K does.
That said, I consider any information that Grey2K is behind (i.e., most AR vitriol) to be entirely suspect. Grey2K raises $350K in non-taxable donations and spends the majority of those funds on salaries, lobbying, and publicity. Although loosely wrapped around NGA registration statistics, most of the numbers they cite are fabricated. Doesn't inspire much confidence.
And besides, if they were actively involved in adoption or working with the industry, they might actually have some experience to base their opinions on.
Absolutely. Do you consider that greyhounds are only bred for five years of use? On what are you basing that?
| QUOTE |
| I think this argument only proves why racing dogs are cared for properly but what about the point in which they stop winning money? What reasons would the majority of owners have for providing them with the same care until they reach adoption groups? And how can anyone be confident that most or all of them operate the same as those few we have personally met? |
Well, considering the inspections by and penalties from the NGA if a racing owner or trainer doesn't provide adequate care, the loss of their license to work ought to be a pretty good deterrent.
| QUOTE |
| If there are greyhounds being mistreated or neglected anywhere, I don't say "blah" or just chalk it up to the infamous few bad apples. I think those dogs are just as important to learn about as the ones who receive excellent care. Not to say this article is the best source to use, but unless I know for sure that problems simply don't exist, I am open to hearing about them and willing to help in any way I can. |
I'm sure you're not implying that anyone here doesn't care about those greyhounds who are neglected or mistreated, or that anyone is claiming that every single greyhound in racing is taken care of appropriately. I personally believe that the way to help those greyhounds who aren't is to work with the large numbers of people within the industry who DO care, rather than assuming that there are dog skeletons hidden in every closet as Grey2K does.
That said, I consider any information that Grey2K is behind (i.e., most AR vitriol) to be entirely suspect. Grey2K raises $350K in non-taxable donations and spends the majority of those funds on salaries, lobbying, and publicity. Although loosely wrapped around NGA registration statistics, most of the numbers they cite are fabricated. Doesn't inspire much confidence.
| QUOTE |
| Tara, the really vocal AR's don't claim to be rescue or adoption volunteers. In fact, some of them have come right out and said they don't support adoption because it aids the racing industry. I may not agree with their views but I wouldn't expect to see a large percentage of them actively involved in this area. |
And besides, if they were actively involved in adoption or working with the industry, they might actually have some experience to base their opinions on.
QUOTE (Jenna @ Jul 31 2007, 05:03 AM)
I agree with this but it don't feel that any dog should be bred for only 5 years of use. IMHO, responsible breeding would be for a purpose or (purposes) that would extend the dog's entire natural life.
Absolutely. How many greyhounds do you see racing after 5 years? What do you think would happen to them if no one else could take them?
Jenna
| QUOTE |
Absolutely. Do you consider that greyhounds are only bred for five years of use? On what are you basing that? |
Absolutely. How many greyhounds do you see racing after 5 years? What do you think would happen to them if no one else could take them?
Jenna
| QUOTE (shalea @ Aug 3 2007, 10:40 PM) |
| Well, considering the inspections by and penalties from the NGA if a racing owner or trainer doesn't provide adequate care, the loss of their license to work ought to be a pretty good deterrent. |
Do you feel the owners or trainers provided adequate care for the dogs who disappeared from Tucson? Or how about all the dogs who are currently being put down because groups don't have enough room for them?
Jenna
| QUOTE (JudiK @ Jul 31 2007, 04:08 PM) |
| Greyhound-L is probably the original greyhound forum - it predates nifty gui interfaces and is merely a compilation of e-mails sent to an address within a day's time. You subscribe to it ... |
I started on the Greyhound-L in 1998 - and I was a regular participant for a few years. It was fun for awhile... before they went to "full moderation". Yes there WAS a time when your Post would actually get posted!
A few years ago the L changed - The Owners and their buddies decided to clamp down and make it a CENSORED List. Which is OK I guess if people want to support that. It's their List. All good things must end ...
So a select few Know-it-alls, form the little "In-crowd" along with the Mods - to control all discussion. The LIST (and G.T. also) are both waaaay over moderated, and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Newbies welcome! The clueless folks are catered to, because they think this helps the adoption effort I am guessing.
Interesting - you can check the L once a year - and it's still the same two dozen ladies arguing back and forth. You'd think the GH Adoption world is pretty small! Of course a good number of knowledgable greyhound people no longer support The L too.
QUOTE (Railbird9 @ Aug 6 2007, 12:08 AM)
| QUOTE (JudiK @ Jul 31 2007, 04:08 PM) |
| Greyhound-L is probably the original greyhound forum - it predates nifty gui interfaces and is merely a compilation of e-mails sent to an address within a day's time. You subscribe to it ... |
<br /><br />I started on the Greyhound-L in 1998 - and I was a regular participant for a few years. It was fun for awhile... before they went to "full moderation". Yes there WAS a time when your Post would actually get posted!<br /><br />A few years ago the L changed - The Owners and their buddies decided to clamp down and make it a CENSORED List. Which is OK I guess if people want to support that. It's their List. All good things must end ...<br /><br />So a select few Know-it-alls, form the little "In-crowd" along with the Mods - to control all discussion. The LIST (and G.T. also) are both waaaay over moderated, and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Newbies welcome! The clueless folks are catered to, because they think this helps the adoption effort I am guessing.<br /><br />Interesting - you can check the L once a year - and it's still the same two dozen ladies arguing back and forth. You'd think the GH Adoption world is pretty small! Of course a good number of knowledgable greyhound people no longer support The L too.
Let's hope Richard L., John P., Ken S. and "Susan" B. don't see your message, Railbird. They might take offense to your characterization of "clueless female know-it-alls." Not only do they regularly post there but they start a good number of those arguments and contribute more than their share until the bitter end.
Jenna
Let's hope Richard L., John P., Ken S. and "Susan" B. don't see your message, Railbird. They might take offense to your characterization of "clueless female know-it-alls." Not only do they regularly post there but they start a good number of those arguments and contribute more than their share until the bitter end.
Jenna
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Jul 31 2007, 05:03 AM) |
| Absolutely. Do you consider that greyhounds are only bred for five years of use? Absolutely. How many greyhounds do you see racing after 5 years? What do you think would happen to them if no one else could take them? Jenna |
What does the fact they only RACE for five years, have to do with their breeding? Do you know many professional dog breeders?
Purebred dogs are produced and sold for a purpose. Breeders don't control how long they live, or what purpose the buyers use them for. Greyhounds are PERFORMANCE bred animals, produced based on objective criteria - speed, conformation, temperament.
ALL animals who are selectively purpose bred - have a relatively short time frame during which they really perform their job. That includes the MOST common working dogs, security and hunting. You just don't see many 12-year old guard dogs, gun dogs, tracking or herding dogs. This isn't the breeder's fault, just a condition of their existence.
What would "happen to them"? Same thing that "happens" to ANY domestic animal which is no longer suited for their purpose, and that includes pets! They would no longer exist. Naturally!
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Aug 6 2007, 06:46 AM) |
| Let's hope Richard L., John P., Ken S. and "Susan" B. don't see your message, Railbird. They might take offense to your characterization of "clueless female know-it-alls." Not only do they regularly post there but they start a good number of those arguments and contribute more than their share until the bitter end. Jenna |
Well, Ken was the honorary whipping boy there for a long time. See, they always elect 1 poor dude to serve as the fall-guy. I don't see Ken posting there much anymore ... Parker is the current guy. You better believe he is the *only* one allowed to debate - and YES he is doing a pretty fair job. Go John!! Richard the Rabbit hugger, well, he is certainly unique but not real relevant to USA discussions. C'mon.
| QUOTE (Railbird9 @ Aug 6 2007, 05:09 PM) |
| What does the fact they only RACE for five years, have to do with their breeding? Do you know many professional dog breeders? Purebred dogs are produced and sold for a purpose. Breeders don't control how long they live, or what purpose the buyers use them for. Greyhounds are PERFORMANCE bred animals, produced based on objective criteria - speed, conformation, temperament. ALL animals who are selectively purpose bred - have a relatively short time frame during which they really perform their job. That includes the MOST common working dogs, security and hunting. You just don't see many 12-year old guard dogs, gun dogs, tracking or herding dogs. This isn't the breeder's fault, just a condition of their existence. What would "happen to them"? Same thing that "happens" to ANY domestic animal which is no longer suited for their purpose, and that includes pets! They would no longer exist. Naturally! |
12 years old is a far cry fom 5, don't you think? It's like difference between an 84 year old human and a 35 year old.
No matter how long any domestic animal winds up living, at least the intention or plan when breeding is for them to live out their natural lives. Too many greyhounds are bred without this opportunity. I don't feel that is a fair or responsible way to bring these beautiful creatures into the world. I don't think the time they have should depend on whether they race or not. It seems to me that the breeders/owners/trainers who do right by their dogs would agree. And shalea, while I certainly can see a lot of good come out of supporting and working with these people. I honestly don't understand how that would help the dogs they do not own. Those are the only dogs that concern me.
Jenna
| QUOTE (Railbird9 @ Aug 6 2007, 05:17 PM) |
| Well, Ken was the honorary whipping boy there for a long time. See, they always elect 1 poor dude to serve as the fall-guy. I don't see Ken posting there much anymore ... Parker is the current guy. You better believe he is the *only* one allowed to debate - and YES he is doing a pretty fair job. Go John!! Richard the Rabbit hugger, well, he is certainly unique but not real relevant to USA discussions. C'mon. |
I am not interested in evaluating members of the GH-List. I just saw right through your assessment is all. I think everyone who posts there has something worthwhile to say and could not even venture to guess what the moderators have not allowed through, except for a few of my own quite some time ago.
Jenna
| QUOTE (blackcirce @ Jul 5 2007, 11:32 AM) |
| I totally agree 100% with this article. |
Me too