I would love to hear everyone's response on this, as it is something we all hear. We were walking the dogs a couple nights ago, and of course got the "Are those rescues?" question. I have actually just started saying no, and if they want to know more, they can ask. We adopted Pre and Justin, ADOPTED, not RESCUED, from a kennel that was given a donation by the owner to adopt them out. Yes, most owners pay to have their dogs hauled to PRH, and then make a donation to cover expenses.
Anyway, here is the question. Where do you draw the line between an adopted dog and a rescued dog? Both exist in the pet world at large, and in the greyhound world specifically. Thoughts?? I have a LOT more on the subject, but I would like some input from you guys first!
Full Version: Allright, I got a question
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I think it could go both ways. I mean when we got Oreo, he was in a shelter, presumably in his last days, so in that line of thinking, we rescued him from a possible death, but at the same time, we adopted him into our family. Ok, granted, we got there the same time the lady from a rescue group showed up, but since we had made previous plans with the shelter to see Oreo(not his shelter name), we got first dibs on him.
It's pretty simple for me whether it's a greyhound or another breed. If the dog is being neglected or in danger of being put down, it's a rescue. Otherwise, it's an adoption. I'm such a simpleton. 
Semantics. I dont really worry about which term is used when I am asked. My reply is simply that they were retired from racing and they retired to MY house. I AM a retirement center it seems. Just wish it was me that was retired. If people ask about the "horrible treatment" that so many people think is still the norm, I try and explain that things have changed dramatically and that most kennels try to work with the adoption groups. I also try to explain that there is also always ongoing things to continue to assist the hounds in the transition from employed to retirement. Always a chance to educate the public. It seems that a lot of the non-greyhound public only remembers the bad stories. Not the good ones. But like everything else, bad stuff is what makes the news.
| QUOTE (rycezmom @ May 11 2007, 01:24 PM) |
| It seems that a lot of the non-greyhound public only remembers the bad stories. Not the good ones. But like everything else, bad stuff is what makes the news. |
Isn't that the truth!! If it bleeds, it leads!! (That's for Jenna!!)
I do put a lot of weight on words, because they DO have meaning, and once said, they can't be taken back. If I call someone a b%tch, then they will always know that I said that, and it can never be taken back.
About 90% of the greys adopted today are just that-adopted. There is a small amount that are truly rescued, and another 10% that don't get rescued. Those are the ones I prefer to save the term for, instead of degrading the term to all dogs that are adopted.
If you call all dogs that are adopted rescues, then by deduction can't you also call a child that was adopted a rescue?
I don't really think it matters that much to me, I tend to reply when asked, That Rosie adopted me. or rescued which ever fits the question... 
I tell people Misty is a retired racer and brood mom and that I adopted her through Greyhound Angels. Then I tell them that Toby, my cat, I rescued him from being put down when he was a kitten.
Living in Canada where there are alot of uneducated people who know nothing about greys in general ... I agree with Chris in that words carry alot of weight. I am asked daily if Ty was rescued, saved from being put down or some form of that question. I always say "no he had a racing injury and his owner thought it best he retire and I was lucky enough to get him." The media is different here we ONLY here the bad stories and until I got Ty and started my journey into obsession I knew sooooo little (as most Canadians do). Alot Canadians think that they are all put down when they are done racing unless some kind soul steps in but that is the rare event. (Except the "oldtimers who remeber seeing them race somewhere at sometime and find him so fascinating.) They have no idea that racing is regulated by the NGA (I think they think it is like cock fighting done on the down low LOL) and there are breeders trainers, owners, track owners ect. Just the breeding science is mind boggling...
I believe that until you have one or are around one regularily you will never understand or comprehend how very blessed we are to be priviledged enough to own one of these dogs.
Rescue should be saved for those that are abused, neglected or saved from death. The majority of greys I think adopt a family that suits them.
JMO, sorry I went on and on,
Tara
I believe that until you have one or are around one regularily you will never understand or comprehend how very blessed we are to be priviledged enough to own one of these dogs.
Rescue should be saved for those that are abused, neglected or saved from death. The majority of greys I think adopt a family that suits them.
JMO, sorry I went on and on,
Tara
Thanks for the input Tara!! I totally agree with you, that until you are around the dogs, see what they have the unshakable desire to do, the passion in their gaze, and the sheer joy and excitement they derive from doing the ONE true thing they LOVE, you can never have a sense of what they are about. You can adopt one as a puppy, and go to a fun run at a track, and that 2 year old dog that has never set foot on an oval knows exactly what to do. A true sight to behold, and I think you walk away with a different picture of the greyhound.
I wish that Dabuque would allow non raced greys to do their fun run, but they don't. Their fun run is called the Mutt Dog Derby and even little Neba isn't allowed to enter. They said no dog with greyhound of any size in them is allowed. Not fair I tell you!!!
Why no greyhound ... would the outcome be sealed LOL. Maybe encourage them to have a seperate on for greys, whippets ect. just an idea?
Tara
Tara
QUOTE (rycezmom @ May 11 2007, 01:24 PM)
About 90% of the greys adopted today are just that-adopted. There is a small amount that are truly rescued, and another 10% that don't get rescued. Those are the ones I prefer to save the term for, instead of degrading the term to all dogs that are adopted.
Rescued greyhounds are not in any way inferior to other greyhounds, adopted or otherwise.
Do you have any idea how those percentages were calculated?
Any human or animal whose life is in danger would be considered a rescue, regardless of when their deadline might be. Passengers on sinking ships, hostages, hurricane victims and homeless animals are some examples of typical rescues. Adopted children do not fit into this category because the law does not allow for them to be killed if no one adopts them. There are programs in place to care for them no matter what.
By the way, I just posted to see what my game list would look like.
Rescued greyhounds are not in any way inferior to other greyhounds, adopted or otherwise.
Do you have any idea how those percentages were calculated?
| QUOTE |
| If you call all dogs that are adopted rescues, then by deduction can't you also call a child that was adopted a rescue? |
Any human or animal whose life is in danger would be considered a rescue, regardless of when their deadline might be. Passengers on sinking ships, hostages, hurricane victims and homeless animals are some examples of typical rescues. Adopted children do not fit into this category because the law does not allow for them to be killed if no one adopts them. There are programs in place to care for them no matter what.
By the way, I just posted to see what my game list would look like.
| QUOTE (Jenna @ May 14 2007, 07:02 AM) |
| Adopted children do not fit into this category because the law does not allow for them to be killed if no one adopts them. There are programs in place to care for them no matter what. |
Not always. I have a feeling that if an orphan from Nigeria is NOT adopted, there is a pretty good chance that he will not see adulthood, whether it be death from malaria or he disappears in a trafficking ring.
So do you think that as long as a dog is in no real danger, then it is not a rescue? Just curious!
| QUOTE (greytdog @ May 14 2007, 06:55 AM) |
| Why no greyhound ... would the outcome be sealed LOL. Maybe encourage them to have a seperate on for greys, whippets ect. just an idea? Tara |
Tara, I asked them that, and they said that they just don't do it. I guess they are afraid that people adopting or looking to adopt from them would get the wrong idea and think that they could keep racing their grey. It would be nice if they could have the stipulation that the grey can't have ever been raced, therefore isn't tatooed. Also, Neba wouldn't give them a disadvantage I don't think because she does have a luxating patella. She runs hard, but not always full out like she could.
QUOTE (prefontaine @ May 14 2007, 05:38 PM)
Not always. I have a feeling that if an orphan from Nigeria is NOT adopted, there is a pretty good chance that he will not see adulthood, whether it be death from malaria or he disappears in a trafficking ring.
Good point. Yes, I think that adopting a Nigerian orphan who was about to be abducted would certainly be a rescue.
AND if someone asked me if the child was rescued, can you imagine me telling them "Of course not! I adopted him, you idiot! Does he look like he needs to be rescued? Practically.. um, well just about all Nigerian orphans are adopted, so stop degrading them with that nasty term. My child certainly is not one of them."
AND if those people who asked were actually interested in helping a poor Nigerian orphan, how do you suppose they would realize the need even existed, much less where to find one?
Knowing that those poor orphans will disappear in trafficking rings or die of malaria, wouldn't you feel like smacking me upside the head for having such a narrow minded, all-about-me point of view?
Beyond that, I don't think you really want to look at areas outside of the U.S. if you're trying to score any points for greyhound welfare. The needy greyhound rescue capital of the world is just north of Nigeria. In fact, I'll bet some of those greys head south as well. What a mess.
Yes, of course. I won't venture to guess what you mean by real danger, so I'll clarify myself. Dogs who will be cared for instead of being put down don't need to be rescued unless they end up in some other danger by the same definition.
If a dog has already been rescued, then I wouldn't say it needed to be rescued anymore. Maybe that is where the mix up is?
If a dog is being held for as long as it takes to find him a home and no one ends up taking him, then the owner keeps him rather than putting him down, I would not consider the dog a rescue. Can we say that about 90% of all the greyhounds adopted? Give me a break. What business would we have running charity organizations and soliciting dontations for that?
If the owner had to put their dog down instead, then he would need to be rescued. I believe this is the case most of the time or farms would be crammed with surplus greyhounds living out their retirement due to a major decrease in volunteer help. Believe me, they don't just do it for fun.
If your dog is not a rescue, then don't call him one. But you can't generalize them all that way. It is not fair to the ones who need help. You have no clue how many there are. Nobody does. I have been around as long as this argument has and the only thing that has been learned is that people see things differently because they deal with different things. There is no right or wrong answer that applies to every case and no person who knows it all. But when people ask, I think it would be really nice if you told them about other greyhounds as well as your own.
Jenna
Good point. Yes, I think that adopting a Nigerian orphan who was about to be abducted would certainly be a rescue.
AND if someone asked me if the child was rescued, can you imagine me telling them "Of course not! I adopted him, you idiot! Does he look like he needs to be rescued? Practically.. um, well just about all Nigerian orphans are adopted, so stop degrading them with that nasty term. My child certainly is not one of them."
AND if those people who asked were actually interested in helping a poor Nigerian orphan, how do you suppose they would realize the need even existed, much less where to find one?
Knowing that those poor orphans will disappear in trafficking rings or die of malaria, wouldn't you feel like smacking me upside the head for having such a narrow minded, all-about-me point of view?
Beyond that, I don't think you really want to look at areas outside of the U.S. if you're trying to score any points for greyhound welfare. The needy greyhound rescue capital of the world is just north of Nigeria. In fact, I'll bet some of those greys head south as well. What a mess.
| QUOTE |
| So do you think that as long as a dog is in no real danger, then it is not a rescue? Just curious! |
Yes, of course. I won't venture to guess what you mean by real danger, so I'll clarify myself. Dogs who will be cared for instead of being put down don't need to be rescued unless they end up in some other danger by the same definition.
If a dog has already been rescued, then I wouldn't say it needed to be rescued anymore. Maybe that is where the mix up is?
If a dog is being held for as long as it takes to find him a home and no one ends up taking him, then the owner keeps him rather than putting him down, I would not consider the dog a rescue. Can we say that about 90% of all the greyhounds adopted? Give me a break. What business would we have running charity organizations and soliciting dontations for that?
If the owner had to put their dog down instead, then he would need to be rescued. I believe this is the case most of the time or farms would be crammed with surplus greyhounds living out their retirement due to a major decrease in volunteer help. Believe me, they don't just do it for fun.
If your dog is not a rescue, then don't call him one. But you can't generalize them all that way. It is not fair to the ones who need help. You have no clue how many there are. Nobody does. I have been around as long as this argument has and the only thing that has been learned is that people see things differently because they deal with different things. There is no right or wrong answer that applies to every case and no person who knows it all. But when people ask, I think it would be really nice if you told them about other greyhounds as well as your own.
Jenna
| QUOTE (Jenna @ May 15 2007, 02:17 AM) |
| If your dog is not a rescue, then don't call him one. But you can't generalize them all that way. It is not fair to the ones who need help. You have no clue how many there are. Nobody does. I have been around as long as this argument has and the only thing that has been learned is that people see things differently because they deal with different things. There is no right or wrong answer that applies to every case and no person who knows it all. But when people ask, I think it would be really nice if you told them about other greyhounds as well as your own. Jenna |
Jenna, the thing about your argument, is that just as you said, YOU don't know how many need rescuing either. Are there hundreds, or thousands? And if we were able to get the number to zero, would you actually believe it?? Are my dogs better than someone else's?? Heck no! I think you have once again missed my point, and that is if you are always calling greyhounds rescues, and acting as if they are some charity case, then that is what they will always be. They will always be something that people pity. Greyhounds certainly have the look: the bones showing, the pointy faces that they point down slightly to look at you with their big, soulful eyes, the way the curl up in a tight little ball sometimes....Believe me, there are going to be people who feel sorry for them no matter what. You ever heard teh saying "If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always got"? Sometimes you have to change your attitude and goals, and then charge your actions to meet those goals. ACT like greyhounds are the greatest thing since sliced bread, tell everyone you come across how great they are as pets, how they love to run and that their owner made a point to get them to an adoption agency at the end of their career so that they could find a home...and see if you don't get a change in attitude, and an increase in adoptions. Would you rather do that, or drone on about the poor state of the industry, and how bad the dogs are treated, and that so many are put down every year.....that is called a pity adoption. And it does NOTHING for getting more greyhounds adopted, or for making the industry a better place for all greyhounds. All it does is make for a lot of hand-wringing, and making the "rescuer" feel like they are doing something great. I think it is an absolute travesty that ANYONE comes up to me and asks if my dogs are rescues. Did the industry originally bring that upon themselves? Yep. But it IS a different picture now. It does a true disservice to the owners, breeders, and trainers that are responsible to call their dogs rescues. I know many more people involved with greyhounds that do the right thing than not. Keep calling their dogs-the ones they PAY to have hauled and vetted-rescues, and they may just stop caring-and then they will be rescues.
My dogs finished their careers in Mexico. I am not going to lie about that or their owners. You need to try and understand that things aren't always sunshine and daiseys and sometimes the truth is all that's left to get them out. I have no desire to go around professing knowledge about any other dogs and I don't make things up about the intentions of those who help them. IMHO, neither should you.
The number does not need to be zero and don't think we haven't already been over that. It only needs to be true. You aren't the source that information would be coming from anyway. We would all need to make the effort to find out. Park your politics at the door for just a moment if you can and try to realize it's the only way we can ever truly help them all. Spreading false information from biased sources can only cause them harm. There is a word for that you know. It's called propaganda and it stinks no matter which side it comes from.
I already told you that I don't call the dogs rescues so get over that. Everyone else has the right to call them whatever they want, so get over that too. A word does not make the dogs into something they aren't. People do. If you see pity, that's in your own mind. It's your perception so don't lay it on me.
I don't need to act like greyhounds are great. I already know they are. I don't twist what people say into meanings that don't exist. They think the dogs are great too. Again, it is all in what you perceive.
The rest of the stuff you think I don't know is common knowledge that existed long before you came on the scene so you aren't sharing anything new. I am really surprised you think I don't tell people the dogs love to run and make great pets. Hello? We are talking about the same dogs aren't we? Greyhounds? Why on earth wouldn't I tell them that? Another one of your perceptions perhaps?
Listen, you have been involved with greyhounds for how many years? One, two, three? That's great. Keep up the good work but please don't assume how others do theirs. It shows how much you really have left to learn.
Jenna
The number does not need to be zero and don't think we haven't already been over that. It only needs to be true. You aren't the source that information would be coming from anyway. We would all need to make the effort to find out. Park your politics at the door for just a moment if you can and try to realize it's the only way we can ever truly help them all. Spreading false information from biased sources can only cause them harm. There is a word for that you know. It's called propaganda and it stinks no matter which side it comes from.
I already told you that I don't call the dogs rescues so get over that. Everyone else has the right to call them whatever they want, so get over that too. A word does not make the dogs into something they aren't. People do. If you see pity, that's in your own mind. It's your perception so don't lay it on me.
I don't need to act like greyhounds are great. I already know they are. I don't twist what people say into meanings that don't exist. They think the dogs are great too. Again, it is all in what you perceive.
The rest of the stuff you think I don't know is common knowledge that existed long before you came on the scene so you aren't sharing anything new. I am really surprised you think I don't tell people the dogs love to run and make great pets. Hello? We are talking about the same dogs aren't we? Greyhounds? Why on earth wouldn't I tell them that? Another one of your perceptions perhaps?
Listen, you have been involved with greyhounds for how many years? One, two, three? That's great. Keep up the good work but please don't assume how others do theirs. It shows how much you really have left to learn.
Jenna
I just have this to say ... "the pen is mighter than the sword" ... that means words have a greater impact than even physical presence. The word rescue has a negative connotation and people in SOME cases pity a rescue and think there is no end to the problem, throw their hands up in frustration and then give up. I had someone just after we got Ty (about two weeks) ask if Ty was a rescue not thinking I said "yes" they looked at me and said "oh is he hard to handle then". This made me realize how much of a hidden meaning the word rescue has. I think we all do our part whatever our talents, abilities and knowledge allow us (no matter how long we have been involved). Assumptions on BOTH sides are not helpful. Positive words and thoughts have the ability to better life, cure sickness and change nations why wouldn't it also be able to help with this issue. I think what is being said here is not that you can't call them rescues (call them whatever you like) but that you have a SINGLE moment in time to make a first impression why not make it a positive one. The word rescue will stick in their minds (some thinking there must be something wrong with them if they have to be rescued) but adoption means you picked them (or as we all know they picked us) so that must mean they are a good choice for a reason (then this may lead to further questions/converstation).
Oops, my big mouth keeps getting me in trouble ... I'll shut up now ... I don't have the years of experience behind me that others here do.
Tara
Oops, my big mouth keeps getting me in trouble ... I'll shut up now ... I don't have the years of experience behind me that others here do.
Tara
That person asked you if your dog was hard to handle because he was a racing dog, not because they assumed he was abused. He would have asked the question no matter what you called it.
That's the point. When people ask if your dog was a rescue, they aren't referring to abuse. They are referring to racing greyhounds as opposed to greyhounds coming from any other place, like AKC, etc.
It is hard because it seems so many times a simple question turn into such confusion and then people walk away not even knowing what they saw.
I have even had people now start to ask and then stop before they get to the word because it caused a problem in the past and now they don't know what they are supposed to say. It's rather sad I think that we have turned what used to be happy, enthusiasm at seeing a racing grey to aprehension about even asking if that's what they are.
Maybe you guys could decide on the best word and tell everybody on an infomercial.
Jenna
That's the point. When people ask if your dog was a rescue, they aren't referring to abuse. They are referring to racing greyhounds as opposed to greyhounds coming from any other place, like AKC, etc.
It is hard because it seems so many times a simple question turn into such confusion and then people walk away not even knowing what they saw.
I have even had people now start to ask and then stop before they get to the word because it caused a problem in the past and now they don't know what they are supposed to say. It's rather sad I think that we have turned what used to be happy, enthusiasm at seeing a racing grey to aprehension about even asking if that's what they are.
Maybe you guys could decide on the best word and tell everybody on an infomercial.
Jenna
| QUOTE |
| My dogs finished their careers in Mexico. I am not going to lie about that or their owners. You need to try and understand that things aren't always sunshine and daiseys and sometimes the truth is all that's left to get them out. I have no desire to go around professing knowledge about any other dogs and I don't make things up about the intentions of those who help them. IMHO, neither should you. |
Excellent. I am glad that you have dogs that ended their careers in Mexico. You shouldn't lie about it, but the discussion wasn't about just your dogs, but adoption in general.
QUOTE
The number does not need to be zero and don't think we haven't already been over that. It only needs to be true. You aren't the source that information would be coming from anyway. Spreading false information from biased sources can only cause them harm. There is a word for that you know. It's called propaganda and it stinks no matter which side it comes from.
So you are ACCUSING me of propaganda huh? Okay....I have said from the beginning that there are true rescues, but today that it IS NOT the status quo.
And why do you just assume that I wouldn't be the source that any info would be coming from regarding numbers Jenna?
Yeah Jenna, I am the one that on a daily basis asks if my dogs are rescues and goes ON and ON about how mistreated they are, how they are all euthanized at the ends of their careers, etc. Yes, that is pity. I don't know what else to call it. That is what I get on a daily basis, and where this damn topic came from anyway. I had gotten back from an event, and had heard it one too many times, so I thought I would get some opinions from you guys. Starting to wonder if that was a good idea...
Every time I go to the store with my dogs I get the comments about how they must be hyper, how someone would love to adopt but they don't have a fenced yard to let them run, they need to gain some weight. I guess I am twisting those words to mean something they don't, huh?
Boy do I have to differ with you here. The follow-up questions after the initial rescue one indicate that they do indeed think abuse in a very large number of cases. I've never had a single person inquire if they were AKC. Since there's a track here, it's assumed that they all come from there.
You know, maybe it's just me, but that yellow print when you quote something is hard to read.
Boy do I have to differ with you here. The follow-up questions after the initial rescue one indicate that they do indeed think abuse in a very large number of cases. I've never had a single person inquire if they were AKC. Since there's a track here, it's assumed that they all come from there.
You know, maybe it's just me, but that yellow print when you quote something is hard to read.
I don't question whether or not people think the dogs are abused. I just don't think that is what they are asking about when they say "is that a rescue?"
Most of the people I run across saw the same National Geographic special that aired on TV several years ago. I never saw it but I can tell it left a lasting impression on a lot of other folks.
Jenn
You know, it's probably that I took what you wrote as a direct response to me instead of realizing that you might be referring to people in general. That can happen when you (well look, there I did it too) I mean when someone uses the word "you" instead of "everyone" or "anyone" or whatever.
Jenn
Thanks, that helps a bunch. I didn't even see that.
I know what the question is when peope ask me because of what they say afterwards. "Is that a rescue?" Yes, I adopted him from xxxx group"
"Oh, does he run fast?", etc., etc.
Now if my answer would have benn "no, he was not abused." Then they would not understand what I was talking about and probably just walk away confused. And the only reason I know that is because so many people tell us this happens when they give that answer.
Jenna
Well that sounds pretty reasonable. Thanks for your input. It is so nice to hear you guys' different experiences and thoughts on the matter. Coincidentally, I was walking the dogs at the park last night, and a lady with a Yorkie stopped us and asked if we adopted them. It turned out to be a great conversation, and I think she was really interested, as her dog was 15(!), and she didn't know how much longer she had with her, and will be looking at other dogs in the future. A few minutes later, I was walking on one of the trails, and a couple hispanic ladies were in front of me. They started speed walking/running when they saw the dogs, and would turn around and fearfully look at the dogs and continue their retreat. I felt bad for them, as something must have happened in the past to put them in such a defensive state, but it was quite comical to see someone running from some of the most sociable dogs in town!!
Jenna-So if someone asks me "Is that a rescue?", I shouldn't tell the truth and say no, but say yes, hoping it leads to more conversation? It just sounds like I am damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I say yes, then I have to hear the next words out of their mouths about how terrible it is what happens to them, and I think we all know how those conversations go (they ALWAYS know more about your dogs than you do). But if I say no, then I am, in your words, "confusing" them?
Hey! I know what you mean about coyote hunters. There aren't really any around here, and I know they most often live terrible lives, but there is something that absolutely fascinates me about them. I would love to hear more about your coyote dog if you have any stories!!
I think (in your case) it would help a lot to ask him what he means. Then you can give the correct answer without confusing him.
If he says "I mean is that a dog who was abused?" Then "no, he is a retired racing greyhound though. They aren't abused like you may think, blah, blah,blah."
If he is too closed minded, hey, at least you tried.
But if he says "I mean is that one of those racing dogs who needed a new home?" Then "yes". I wouldn't bother with trying to explain why the word is wrong if he didn't mean it that way because that in itself is more confusing than anything. You can see that from the varied answers in this thread. Everyone seems to have their own opinion.
If he still asks "isn't it terrible what they do to them?" Again, I think it would help to ask him what he means. But if you would rather not, you could say "Some of the things you hear about are myths or rumors that have circulated for years. The things that did happen 20 years ago, are not happening anymore (or rarely happen or whatever. It really depends on what things he means).
That would end the annoying question from that one person. Or if he didn't believe you, he might believe the next person who told him the same thing. If you don't tell him anything, he will just keep repeating the same things.
Jenna
15 years. I got my first greyhound before my first computer!
Jenna
Sorry Jenna, but that is just flat out wrong. I have been asked, as you have too, hundreds if not thousands of times, "Oh, look at the greyhounds, are they rescues?" THE NEXT WORDS OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS IS INVARIALBLY "ISN'T IT AWFUL HOW THEY ARE TREATED?" Jenna, name ONE other dog breed that has had an HBO special made about it? (Yes, I know there was one about puppy mills too) Name one other breed that is singled out by animal rights groups the way that the greyhound is. I don't see ANY groups called Affenpinscher Pretection League, or Affenpinshcer2K. There are no lobbying groups against how these dogs are bred, raised, and used, and no one is trying to shut down an industry of working Affenpinschers. THAT is the difference. When someone asks if my dogs are rescues, NO, they do not mean the same as if they were Akitas. Hell, how many of you guys have or have had other full blooded dogs? Were people coming up to you EVERYDAY and asking if it was a rescue?? We walk with some friends that have a great dane and a jack russell, and they have NEVER been asked if their dogs were rescues. The greyhound has a negative connotation attached to it, and you can either believe it or not. No, I don't take offense that someone would think that MY dog is a rescue. I don't get why you think I am so offended by the term, and it's use regarding my personal pets. Greyhounds are singled out and held to a different standard than all other breeds regarding adoption. Plain and simple.
As a side note, directly related, is why people feel it is necessary to see your dogs from a distance, make a bee line toward them with their hands out stretched (for the dog to sniff), and AS SOON AS they get to you say, "Are they rescues?" Am I the only one puzzled by this? It's kinda like asking someone with kids "Are they adopted?", or just walking up to a pregnant lady and rubbing her belly, or seeing a guy getting into a Lexus and asking, "Is it stolen??" I have always wondered what it is that brings people to conclusions about others, and what was it that brought them to that conclusion. Were the parents of the kids white and the kids Chinese? Well that would be a pretty simple one. Was the guy getting into the Lexus holding a 'Will work for food' sign? That one too. But what is it about walking a greyhound gives off the vibe that my (once again, the universal 'my', not mine personally) dogs are rescues? Well, I really doubt we all give off whatever vibe that would be, so it must be a common thought that all greyhounds are in dire straits, and these are 2 of the very few that made it out of the "system". Just an observation!!!
....name ONE other dog breed that has had an HBO special made about it? (Yes, I know there was one about puppy mills too) Name one other breed that is singled out by animal rights groups the way that the greyhound is. I don't see ANY groups called Affenpinscher Pretection League, or Affenpinshcer2K. There are no lobbying groups against how these dogs are bred, raised, and used, and no one is trying to shut down an industry of working Affenpinschers. THAT is the difference. When someone asks if my dogs are rescues, NO, they do not mean the same as if they were Akitas. Hell, how many of you guys have or have had other full blooded dogs? Were people coming up to you EVERYDAY and asking if it was a rescue?? We walk with some friends that have a great dane and a jack russell, and they have NEVER been asked if their dogs were rescues. The greyhound has a negative connotation attached to it, and you can either believe it or not. No, I don't take offense that someone would think that MY dog is a rescue. I don't get why you think I am so offended by the term, and it's use regarding my personal pets. Greyhounds are singled out and held to a different standard than all other breeds regarding adoption. Plain and simple.
As a side note, directly related, is why people feel it is necessary to see your dogs from a distance, make a bee line toward them with their hands out stretched (for the dog to sniff), and AS SOON AS they get to you say, "Are they rescues?" Am I the only one puzzled by this? It's kinda like asking someone with kids "Are they adopted?", or just walking up to a pregnant lady and rubbing her belly, or seeing a guy getting into a Lexus and asking, "Is it stolen??" I have always wondered what it is that brings people to conclusions about others, and what was it that brought them to that conclusion. Were the parents of the kids white and the kids Chinese? Well that would be a pretty simple one. Was the guy getting into the Lexus holding a 'Will work for food' sign? That one too. But what is it about walking a greyhound gives off the vibe that my (once again, the universal 'my', not mine personally) dogs are rescues? Well, I really doubt we all give off whatever vibe that would be, so it must be a common thought that all greyhounds are in dire straits, and these are 2 of the very few that made it out of the "system". Just an observation!!!
What a stupid question. Why don't you name another breed of dog that has been bred in the US for the last 80 years for any purpose and then killed? Don't forget that even today not all of them survive racing.
Look at the number of greyhound registered in the 80s and the number adopted. Before you tell me that was 25 years ago realize that was the decade the greyhound business earned its bad reputation and 20+ years later is still unable to shake.
OK, first of all, I am done with this topic. We started this topic on May 11th, and since you joined EG on the 10th, have had plenty of time to weigh in and for some reason have chosen not to. Why is that??
Since you have chosen to do a comparison, how about giving the AKC a call and ask for numbers of retrievers bred every year, and then call the Human Society-the real one, not that lobbying commie group, the HSUS-or call the ASPCA, and get some numbers on retrievers put down each year. Then remember those are numbers only for AKC REGISTERED dogs. There are probably twice that many bred a year without papers. I can garauntee you that no matter what year you are pulling numbers, retrievers in the pound being euthanized will at least double the number of greys put down a year. Now to answer your question with another-Does it matter whether it was a greyhound being bred to race and put down at the end of it's career, or a lab being bred as a PET and then dumped at the pound certain for an early death?? Does it matter what the dog was bred FOR?? Now does it make either of them right? NO. But for you to ask more of the greyhound community than you do from the general population of dog owners and breeders, when even at it's worst the "industry" was a far cry from the atrocities bestowed upon the average retriever breed, is a TAD hypocritical. If you are going to do a breed comparison (and for some reason, AR's NEVER want to compare numbers with any other breed...), you might want to do a little research and find out that it doesn't matter WHAT the dog was bred FOR, examples of CONSIDERABLY higher euthanasia ACTUAL NUMBERS, not just rates, are commonplace.
You're right, Tara. EVERY group, no matter affiliation, is going to have some bias one way or the other. We'll see what happens with the GD database.
Wow, you really think you are up to a discussion on religion?? You're a brave soul! Alright, here goes. I grew up Baptist (Southern Baptist, no less), but after getting married, questioning my beliefs, etc., my wife and I have somewhat settled into a Lutheran frome of mind. We are currently taking an introductory class at a Lutheran church that teaches the beliefs and subtleties of the Lutheran faith. I grew up thinking that pretty much all the denominations were the same, with only slight differences regarding semantics. Boy was I wrong. What I have realized however, is though all denominations have their place, that none of my beliefs aligned with the Baptist theology.
So you are a basically Presbyterian huh? Ok...I have friends that are Pres, but haven't been able to get a straight answer from them on this...what is your take on predestination? I really don't get that part of the Presbyterian church. Is your set of beliefs close enough to comment on that?
Because you didn't make you poor anaolgy until 6:30AM on the 17th and I replied at 9PM. Is that fast enough for you? .
Resuce - adopted - retired - whatever. When I bump into someone and they ask "is that a rescued greyhound" I tell them "no, he is a retired racer from the track but his owner made sure he found a couch when his racing days were over and I was lucky enough to get him". That goes alot farther than some debate about racing.
As for groups that target other breeds...... PETA and a few other animal rights groups spend millions of dollars a year trying to get laws covering breeding so tight that it curbs or severly limits who can do it and where. They also spend quite a bit on breed specific legislation too. So quit crying and feeling so picked on becasue there are people that don't like greyhound racing - so what? Racing isn't going anywhere. Tracks that are closing are closing for financial reasons not becasue someone is calling a retired racer a rescue for God's sake.
I think you are underestimating the Canadian public. I don't think they know any more or less about greyhound racing than anybody else. I also think rescue or adopted, it's a matter of semantics. Until there is 100% adoption and racing owners provide $$ for their retiring dogs' medical bills upon retirement, they are still being rescued. Remember, for the most part it isn't the racing industry or owner who pays the dogs' medical bills upon retirement, it is the adoption groups who must raise the necessary funds.
I think you are underestimating the Canadian public. I don't think they know any more or less about greyhound racing than anybody else. I also think rescue or adopted, it's a matter of semantics. Until there is 100% adoption and racing owners provide $$ for their retiring dogs' medical bills upon retirement, they are still being rescued. Remember, for the most part it isn't the racing industry or owner who pays the dogs' medical bills upon retirement, it is the adoption groups who must raise the necessary funds.
Thanks for your post. Why don't you register and be a part of board. Like to hear more from you.
So....you're pretty sure that the general Canadian population knows just as much about greyhound racing as, say, someone living in Florida? I don't think Tara is underestimating anyone, simply stating a fact. If something doesn't exist anywhere in an entire country, the constituency is *probably* a little less likely to know much more than their media outlets present.
And BTW, when our group started, we footed the bill for the dogs for about a year or so. Over time, our director has been able to work deals with owners, and kennels to pay for the haul AND make a donation for every dog we receive. I think there are more groups out there operating in this manner than you would think.
i don't think most canadians give racing much thought, and that shouldn't come as a surprise. additionally, i don't think most people care about the rescue vs. adopted argument. that is a splitting hairs argument used by pro vs. con. in the end, it's all semantics and those of us who bother to frequent pet greyhound boards ultimately want good homes for retired hounds. having said that, i think it's time that ALL racing owners and the NGA take responsibility for the dogs they breed and not really on adoption groups, who have traditionally made it all too easy for the racing industry to get away with murder by cleaning up after it.
i don't think most canadians give racing much thought, and that shouldn't come as a surprise. additionally, i don't think most people care about the rescue vs. adopted argument. that is a splitting hairs argument used by pro vs. con. in the end, it's all semantics and those of us who bother to frequent pet greyhound boards ultimately want good homes for retired hounds. having said that, i think it's time that ALL racing owners and the NGA take responsibility for the dogs they breed and not really on adoption groups, who have traditionally made it all too easy for the racing industry to get away with murder by cleaning up after it.
Please register to participate. This is the second time I ask you.
Thanks
D2P
If nobody cares about the rescue vs. adopted debate, why are YOU even commenting on it, and why has it drawn 4 pages worth of responses??
Oh, and by the way, here is the definition of MURDER, as documented on Wikipedia:
Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with "malice aforethought."
Murder
What you are referring to is Animal Euthanasia.
Just thought you would want to have that information so that you can apply proper terms to their respective actions.
Wow, is that all you can come up with?? I bet you're known as The Wordsmith where you come from. And just for your info, as I have said before, I have been around greys for about 6 years and in adoption for around 4. What you are saying with your post (which is number SIX for you, by the way) is that you have more right to an opinion than someone else. But once again, I know nothing, and you "veteran's" know everything. I guess from now on I will just defer all questions to you guys that know SO VERY MUCH about greyhounds and greyhound history. Thanks for putting me in my place.
I don't think that time in the business matters to have an opinion on it. You can talk to and read up on what has been happening to this business in the past few years. I've seen a lot of changes since I started racing in 1993, but does that make me any more knowledgable than Prefontaine? I've had more experiences than him, but he could have the same knowledge just by talking to people. By the way, how long have you been in the business?
huh
I invited folks to my kennel all the time to see what it is like. Once they leave, they get a different perspective on what goes on.
If nobody cares about the rescue vs. adopted debate, why are YOU even commenting on it, and why has it drawn 4 pages worth of responses??
Oh, and by the way, here is the definition of MURDER, as documented on Wikipedia:
Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with "malice aforethought."
Murder
What you are referring to is Animal Euthanasia.
Just thought you would want to have that information so that you can apply proper terms to their respective actions.
I find it interesting that you took my use of "getting away with murder" literally, even though I didn't mean it literally. I think you just shot yourself in the foot. By the way, I don't think it's generally acceptable to use Wiki as your source, as anybody, even you, can write the definition.
I find it interesting that you took my use of "getting away with murder" literally, even though I didn't mean it literally. I think you just shot yourself in the foot. By the way, I don't think it's generally acceptable to use Wiki as your source, as anybody, even you, can write the definition.
Ahhh, so I shot myself in the foot, huh? Next time I will give you a SARCASM warning before I make a post. I guess the Wikipedia reference that YOU took literally should be overlooked too.
Caution-Sarcasm ahead:
And, oooh, even I can write a Wiki entry!! I'm so excited!!
Sarcasm alert lifted
So if you don't feel that you can use Wikipedia as a reliable source, ALTHOUGH it is viewed and edited by a consensus of users, then what do YOU prefer to reference?
(sorry, I couldn't help it)
I don't normally use Wikipedia but what do I know?
Wow, is that all you can come up with?? I bet you're known as The Wordsmith where you come from. And just for your info, as I have said before, I have been around greys for about 6 years and in adoption for around 4. What you are saying with your post (which is number SIX for you, by the way) is that you have more right to an opinion than someone else. But once again, I know nothing, and you "veteran's" know everything. I guess from now on I will just defer all questions to you guys that know SO VERY MUCH about greyhounds and greyhound history. Thanks for putting me in my place.
What is a Wordsmith?
You've been around greys for 6 years - what exactly does that mean? Your neighbors had one? You adopted your first one? And "in adoption for 4", which group have you been with since 2003?
You strike me as someone that visited a track last year and met some kennel people and anyone with an opinion that differs with yours is an idiot. You put down non-greyhound people that ask you if your greyhound is a rescue when I'd be willing to bet that is EXACTLY what you thought not long ago when you saw one on the street.
If length of time at something doesn't count then why does it matter if this is my 6th post or 600th? You went after me for being late to a thread a few weeks ago too, saying that if I had joined the debate earlier my opinion would count for more. well I've been around th track for probably as many years as your've been on Earth and have seen a few things. Some changes and some things that have not changed I'll add. does that make me more knowlegeable? Not neccesarily but it certainly gives me perspective and an understanding you don't seem to have or a willingness to comprehend.
You sound like someone that loves greyhounds, althouhg I'm not sure what your position is on several things like euthanasia at the end of their career. Back in the day that was more common but is still used today on healthy dogs - what do you think of that?
I have answered this question multiple times, on the new board and the old one. I don't have to defend myself to anyone. Believe me or don't-I don't really care one way or another.
What capacity have you "been around the track" and how many years ago was that?
I started out as a teller in 1992, then a dog owner, then kennel helper, trainer and kennel owner. Then I went to work for the track in the adoption kennel as a helper and then was promoted to Adoption Dirctor. So I have seen just about all aspects of the racing community.
First of I don’t know where I “got my nose out of joint” because someone asked me if Al was a rescue… what I hate is when someone has ADOPTED retired racers and they call them rescues
The reason for this is because when the “average Joe” thinks of a greyhound being a rescue they DON’T know about the HUNDREDS of adoption groups out there, they think that to get a grey you have to wait for some huge track rescue or something, many people still think to get a grey that you have to go to some “underground greyhound railroad”
i can't even begin to imagine how some trainers and owners feel about people who have adopted their greys and call them rescues.. after all the money and time they put into those dogs to keep them healthy and happy
First of I don’t know where I “got my nose out of joint” because someone asked me if Al was a rescue… what I hate is when someone has ADOPTED retired racers and they call them rescues
The reason for this is because when the “average Joe” thinks of a greyhound being a rescue they DON’T know about the HUNDREDS of adoption groups out there, they think that to get a grey you have to wait for some huge track rescue or something, many people still think to get a grey that you have to go to some “underground greyhound railroad”
i can't even begin to imagine how some trainers and owners feel about people who have adopted their greys and call them rescues.. after all the money and time they put into those dogs to keep them healthy and happy
Most adopters do not know the original owners of their dogs. Some don't even have a way to find them. It really depends on where you got your dog, whether anyone cared about them or not. I don't get annoyed with adopters who say their dogs are not rescues but if they really want to get their point across to those who don't understand, then they need to explain what safeguards are in place in the absence of volunteer adoption groups.
The people (the "average Joes") who ask about your dogs are the ones who fund these adoption groups. They are the future volunteers and their homes are where we hope the dogs will someday stay. Past history has shown them what happens to the dogs who don't make it to adoption groups and that is what motivates many of them to donate, foster, volunteer or help in some other way. If they express interest in greyhounds and use the term "rescue", do you really think it's a good idea to give them the impression that the need no longer exists? That they are somehow jaded in thinking that huge track closures are not a thing of the past? Adoption groups don't just grow on trees nor do they perpetually exist without continued help from people everywhere, in and out of the racing industry. There still aren't enough of them to help all the dogs and that is the bottom line.
By the way, "greyhound underground railroad" is what we more commonly refer to as a GUR. It's a way of transporting greys long distances in order to get them into homes and it happens ALL the time.
Jenna
So you are ACCUSING me of propaganda huh? Okay....I have said from the beginning that there are true rescues, but today that it IS NOT the status quo.
And why do you just assume that I wouldn't be the source that any info would be coming from regarding numbers Jenna?
| QUOTE |
| If you see pity, that's in your own mind. It's your perception so don't lay it on me. |
Yeah Jenna, I am the one that on a daily basis asks if my dogs are rescues and goes ON and ON about how mistreated they are, how they are all euthanized at the ends of their careers, etc. Yes, that is pity. I don't know what else to call it. That is what I get on a daily basis, and where this damn topic came from anyway. I had gotten back from an event, and had heard it one too many times, so I thought I would get some opinions from you guys. Starting to wonder if that was a good idea...
| QUOTE |
| I don't need to act like greyhounds are great. I already know they are. I don't twist what people say into meanings that don't exist. They think the dogs are great too. Again, it is all in what you perceive. |
Every time I go to the store with my dogs I get the comments about how they must be hyper, how someone would love to adopt but they don't have a fenced yard to let them run, they need to gain some weight. I guess I am twisting those words to mean something they don't, huh?
QUOTE
The rest of the stuff you think I don't know is common knowledge that existed long before you came on the scene so you aren't sharing anything new. I am really surprised you think I don't tell people the dogs love to run and make great pets. Hello? We are talking about the same dogs aren't we? Greyhounds? Why on earth wouldn't I tell them that? Another one of your perceptions perhaps?
What on earth are you even talking about? When did I say there was something you don't know? It seems that you know it all anyway. Why do you all of a sudden think that I am trying to bring groundbreaking ideas, or that I have all of these perceptions on what you think and do? This is a DISCUSSION BOARD. I came here to DISCUSS something, not have you try to put down every word I say. Jenna, it really doesn't matter to me what you do. If you are working to get dogs adopted-great. If not, that's fine with me too. It really hasn't ever crossed my mind what you think or do.
Is this some sort of an insult? You have no idea how long I have worked with greyhounds, or to what degree. Do you think that anyone would want to be involved with greyhounds when "an old veteran" like yourself treats them like this??? Oh, that's right, you have been involved with greyhounds long enough to know everything right?? You have all the answers, and that is why all the dogs find homes and all owners do the right thing, because you are around to spread your wealth of knowledge with us all. Funny thing is, I never actually see you put your 2 cents in unless it is to disagree with someone else. I guess that is what I really need to learn.
Jenna, I have nothing else to say about this, so don't expect any more responses from me.
On a lighter note, Tara I got a lot from your last post. That is what I was driving at, that you DO only have 1 chance to make a first impression. And you say you haven't been involved with greys very long...I think you have a very level head on your shoulders, and you should keep speaking what runs through it!!
What on earth are you even talking about? When did I say there was something you don't know? It seems that you know it all anyway. Why do you all of a sudden think that I am trying to bring groundbreaking ideas, or that I have all of these perceptions on what you think and do? This is a DISCUSSION BOARD. I came here to DISCUSS something, not have you try to put down every word I say. Jenna, it really doesn't matter to me what you do. If you are working to get dogs adopted-great. If not, that's fine with me too. It really hasn't ever crossed my mind what you think or do.
| QUOTE |
| Listen, you have been involved with greyhounds for how many years? One, two, three? That's great. Keep up the good work but please don't assume how others do theirs. It shows how much you really have left to learn. |
Is this some sort of an insult? You have no idea how long I have worked with greyhounds, or to what degree. Do you think that anyone would want to be involved with greyhounds when "an old veteran" like yourself treats them like this??? Oh, that's right, you have been involved with greyhounds long enough to know everything right?? You have all the answers, and that is why all the dogs find homes and all owners do the right thing, because you are around to spread your wealth of knowledge with us all. Funny thing is, I never actually see you put your 2 cents in unless it is to disagree with someone else. I guess that is what I really need to learn.
Jenna, I have nothing else to say about this, so don't expect any more responses from me.
On a lighter note, Tara I got a lot from your last post. That is what I was driving at, that you DO only have 1 chance to make a first impression. And you say you haven't been involved with greys very long...I think you have a very level head on your shoulders, and you should keep speaking what runs through it!!
| QUOTE |
| That person asked you if your dog was hard to handle because he was a racing dog, not because they assumed he was abused. He would have asked the question no matter what you called it. That's the point. When people ask if your dog was a rescue, they aren't referring to abuse. They are referring to racing greyhounds as opposed to greyhounds coming from any other place, like AKC, etc |
Boy do I have to differ with you here. The follow-up questions after the initial rescue one indicate that they do indeed think abuse in a very large number of cases. I've never had a single person inquire if they were AKC. Since there's a track here, it's assumed that they all come from there.
You know, maybe it's just me, but that yellow print when you quote something is hard to read.
cheryl2
at the bottom of the board is a skin changer. See if you like one of those that might make the quote look better.
at the bottom of the board is a skin changer. See if you like one of those that might make the quote look better.
QUOTE (cheryl2 @ May 15 2007, 09:45 PM)
| QUOTE |
| That person asked you if your dog was hard to handle because he was a racing dog, not because they assumed he was abused. He would have asked the question no matter what you called it. That's the point. When people ask if your dog was a rescue, they aren't referring to abuse. They are referring to racing greyhounds as opposed to greyhounds coming from any other place, like AKC, etc |
Boy do I have to differ with you here. The follow-up questions after the initial rescue one indicate that they do indeed think abuse in a very large number of cases. I've never had a single person inquire if they were AKC. Since there's a track here, it's assumed that they all come from there.
You know, maybe it's just me, but that yellow print when you quote something is hard to read.
I don't question whether or not people think the dogs are abused. I just don't think that is what they are asking about when they say "is that a rescue?"
Most of the people I run across saw the same National Geographic special that aired on TV several years ago. I never saw it but I can tell it left a lasting impression on a lot of other folks.
Jenn
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ May 15 2007, 06:30 PM) |
| What on earth are you even talking about? When did I say there was something you don't know? |
You know, it's probably that I took what you wrote as a direct response to me instead of realizing that you might be referring to people in general. That can happen when you (well look, there I did it too) I mean when someone uses the word "you" instead of "everyone" or "anyone" or whatever.
Jenn
Thank-you prefontaine ... but I think it is still the "bloom on the rose" for me. I haven't been involved as long as you all have and I still have the idealistic view that all the problems can be solved by listening. I am also some what sheltered from the firestorm around this topic because I live in Canada.
Jenna ... do you KNOW that was the reason the question was asked or are you assuming? Most people know nothing of the racing aspect but a whole lot of the "abuse" of these dogs when their careers are over.
I always just remember that words have a lasting impact on how our thoughts and feelings about something are shaped.
Think of things like ... "Four score and seven years ago..." or " When in the course of human events ...". Words are chosen for a reason they wield amazing power. Now, I guess if your goal is to eliminate greyhound racing then the words "abused/rescued" would be a good choice. If your goal is to place and rehome dogs cause they make great pets then "adopted" would be a better choice of words. It is simple "Marketing 101".
Sorry ... need to buy more duct tape again.
Jenna, prefontaine ... how long have you been involved with greys (innocent question just wondering)? I realize how little we actually know about each other and I think that leads to assumptions about the persons ideas/motives ect.
Hello my name is Tara I have been involved with greyhounds for 8 months ... LOL
Tara
Jenna ... do you KNOW that was the reason the question was asked or are you assuming? Most people know nothing of the racing aspect but a whole lot of the "abuse" of these dogs when their careers are over.
I always just remember that words have a lasting impact on how our thoughts and feelings about something are shaped.
Think of things like ... "Four score and seven years ago..." or " When in the course of human events ...". Words are chosen for a reason they wield amazing power. Now, I guess if your goal is to eliminate greyhound racing then the words "abused/rescued" would be a good choice. If your goal is to place and rehome dogs cause they make great pets then "adopted" would be a better choice of words. It is simple "Marketing 101".
Sorry ... need to buy more duct tape again.
Jenna, prefontaine ... how long have you been involved with greys (innocent question just wondering)? I realize how little we actually know about each other and I think that leads to assumptions about the persons ideas/motives ect.
Hello my name is Tara I have been involved with greyhounds for 8 months ... LOL
Tara
| QUOTE (dad2paisley @ May 15 2007, 11:50 PM) |
| cheryl2 at the bottom of the board is a skin changer. See if you like one of those that might make the quote look better. |
Thanks, that helps a bunch. I didn't even see that.
One of the reasons I hesitate to post in threads like this is...terminology is powerful. I have always thought that a dog that is with a group or a track adoption kennel is "safe" therefore that dog is adopted.
My response depends on which dog I have with me...Boss is a rescue, he was rescued from a hoarding situation. However, we adopted him. If someone asks me about him in particular and wants to know about him then I tell them his story and finish it with we adopted him. I don't think I would be honest if I said, we rescued him.
Miss Muffet was pulled off a hauler and the adoption kennel at the track was told if they didn't take her they would put her to sleep....Our group then took her from the adoption kennel...so yes she was rescued BUT not by me....I adopted her. If someone asks me her story I tell them and I finish it with we adopted her. Again, I don't think I would be honest if I said, we rescued her.
My other 4, I consider adopted, I have no idea if there was any rescuing involved in getting them up to my group or not.
My response depends on which dog I have with me...Boss is a rescue, he was rescued from a hoarding situation. However, we adopted him. If someone asks me about him in particular and wants to know about him then I tell them his story and finish it with we adopted him. I don't think I would be honest if I said, we rescued him.
Miss Muffet was pulled off a hauler and the adoption kennel at the track was told if they didn't take her they would put her to sleep....Our group then took her from the adoption kennel...so yes she was rescued BUT not by me....I adopted her. If someone asks me her story I tell them and I finish it with we adopted her. Again, I don't think I would be honest if I said, we rescued her.
My other 4, I consider adopted, I have no idea if there was any rescuing involved in getting them up to my group or not.
| QUOTE (greytdog @ May 16 2007, 08:04 AM) |
| Jenna ... do you KNOW that was the reason the question was asked or are you assuming? |
I know what the question is when peope ask me because of what they say afterwards. "Is that a rescue?" Yes, I adopted him from xxxx group"
"Oh, does he run fast?", etc., etc.
Now if my answer would have benn "no, he was not abused." Then they would not understand what I was talking about and probably just walk away confused. And the only reason I know that is because so many people tell us this happens when they give that answer.
Jenna
Whooo!! Hot topic!!
My answer depends on which dog I have with me. Penny is a retired racing greyhound and I say I adopted her.
Rocky is a different story. He was a rescue. He was one of 13 coyote hunting greyhounds that were found fending for themselves. They were abandoned and picked up by animal control in Nebraska.
With retired racers I like the words adopted rather than rescue. Just my two cents....
My answer depends on which dog I have with me. Penny is a retired racing greyhound and I say I adopted her.
Rocky is a different story. He was a rescue. He was one of 13 coyote hunting greyhounds that were found fending for themselves. They were abandoned and picked up by animal control in Nebraska.
With retired racers I like the words adopted rather than rescue. Just my two cents....
| QUOTE (vahoundlover @ May 16 2007, 02:26 PM) |
| One of the reasons I hesitate to post in threads like this is...terminology is powerful. I have always thought that a dog that is with a group or a track adoption kennel is "safe" therefore that dog is adopted. My response depends on which dog I have with me...Boss is a rescue, he was rescued from a hoarding situation. However, we adopted him. If someone asks me about him in particular and wants to know about him then I tell them his story and finish it with we adopted him. I don't think I would be honest if I said, we rescued him. Miss Muffet was pulled off a hauler and the adoption kennel at the track was told if they didn't take her they would put her to sleep....Our group then took her from the adoption kennel...so yes she was rescued BUT not by me....I adopted her. If someone asks me her story I tell them and I finish it with we adopted her. Again, I don't think I would be honest if I said, we rescued her. My other 4, I consider adopted, I have no idea if there was any rescuing involved in getting them up to my group or not. |
Well that sounds pretty reasonable. Thanks for your input. It is so nice to hear you guys' different experiences and thoughts on the matter. Coincidentally, I was walking the dogs at the park last night, and a lady with a Yorkie stopped us and asked if we adopted them. It turned out to be a great conversation, and I think she was really interested, as her dog was 15(!), and she didn't know how much longer she had with her, and will be looking at other dogs in the future. A few minutes later, I was walking on one of the trails, and a couple hispanic ladies were in front of me. They started speed walking/running when they saw the dogs, and would turn around and fearfully look at the dogs and continue their retreat. I felt bad for them, as something must have happened in the past to put them in such a defensive state, but it was quite comical to see someone running from some of the most sociable dogs in town!!
Jenna-So if someone asks me "Is that a rescue?", I shouldn't tell the truth and say no, but say yes, hoping it leads to more conversation? It just sounds like I am damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I say yes, then I have to hear the next words out of their mouths about how terrible it is what happens to them, and I think we all know how those conversations go (they ALWAYS know more about your dogs than you do). But if I say no, then I am, in your words, "confusing" them?
| QUOTE (terilynb @ May 16 2007, 07:37 PM) |
| Whooo!! Hot topic!! My answer depends on which dog I have with me. Penny is a retired racing greyhound and I say I adopted her. Rocky is a different story. He was a rescue. He was one of 13 coyote hunting greyhounds that were found fending for themselves. They were abandoned and picked up by animal control in Nebraska. With retired racers I like the words adopted rather than rescue. Just my two cents.... |
Hey! I know what you mean about coyote hunters. There aren't really any around here, and I know they most often live terrible lives, but there is something that absolutely fascinates me about them. I would love to hear more about your coyote dog if you have any stories!!
If you do an internet search for breed adoption groups without even using the word "rescue", the first result that comes up is the American Kennel Club Breed Rescue Group List..
Click the first group on that list, the Affenpinscher Rescue Group, and here is what their mission statement reads:
Affenpinschers and Affen mixes come to us from many sources...animal shelters, owners who are no longer able to keep their dog, from other rescue groups and concerned citizens...just about anywhere that we find an Affen in need of our help. Sometimes we act as a referral service for shelters or other rescues that have an Affen in need of a forever home.
Click the next group on the list, The Afghan Hound Club of America - National Rescue, and here is what their mission statement reads:
AHCA Rescue provides support, coordination, and financial assistance to a national network of volunteers. Our goal is to ensure that veterinary care, including spaying and neutering, temperament evaluations, foster placements, and loving, permanent homes are provided to homeless Afghan Hounds. AHCA Rescue receives its funding from individual contributors, fund-raising items and events, and from donations by regional Afghan Hound clubs.
Click the next group on the list, The Airedale Terrier Club Rescue and Adoption Committee, and here is what their mission statement reads:
The ATCA Rescue & Adoption Committee fulfills the Airedale Terrier Club of America, Inc. ("ATCA") obligation to protect and advance the interests of the breed by providing services to lost, abandoned, abused or unwanted purebred Airedale Terriers.
From the Akita Club of America, Inc.
Fanciers of Akitas were among the first groups to realize that shelters and humane organizations needed help. They organized to rescue Akitas that needed additional help to find new homes. The term "rescue" has now come to encompass any group that specializes in placing one breed of dog, and the dogs they help have become known as "rescue dogs."
Tha Alaskan Malamute Assistance League:
The Alaskan Malamute Assistance League is dedicated to the health and well being of all Alaskan Malamutes. Our main objectives are to rehabilitate and re-home rescued Alaskan Malamutes, assist Malamute owners, and provide education services to the public. Our ultimate goal is to ensure that every Alaskan Malamute has the chance to live a life that they deserve.
The list goes on and on and on.
What I am trying to explain is that the word "rescue" to anyone who has not been privy to our discussions on greyhound message boards, encompasses all dogs who are in need of homes, regardless of how they were treated or what circumstances got them there. It is the single most common term that both breeders and adoption groups use nationwide. The breeder's web sites even link directly to rescue groups.
People cannot possibly know that the meaning you guys have assigned to this word carries such negativity. By re-defining the word you are making it sound as if all greyhounds who need homes are abused. And by taking offense that they would insinuate such a horrendous thing about your dog, you are sending out the message that rescued greyhounds are not a good thing. After reading the above mission statements, do you really want people to believe that?
I don't have a single problem with not using the word amongst ourselves. I respect the feelings of greyhound breeders. But I really think you should take another look at what the rest of the world is saying and try to understand the language they agree on from their point of view. It is not always what you think.
Jenna
Click the first group on that list, the Affenpinscher Rescue Group, and here is what their mission statement reads:
Affenpinschers and Affen mixes come to us from many sources...animal shelters, owners who are no longer able to keep their dog, from other rescue groups and concerned citizens...just about anywhere that we find an Affen in need of our help. Sometimes we act as a referral service for shelters or other rescues that have an Affen in need of a forever home.
Click the next group on the list, The Afghan Hound Club of America - National Rescue, and here is what their mission statement reads:
AHCA Rescue provides support, coordination, and financial assistance to a national network of volunteers. Our goal is to ensure that veterinary care, including spaying and neutering, temperament evaluations, foster placements, and loving, permanent homes are provided to homeless Afghan Hounds. AHCA Rescue receives its funding from individual contributors, fund-raising items and events, and from donations by regional Afghan Hound clubs.
Click the next group on the list, The Airedale Terrier Club Rescue and Adoption Committee, and here is what their mission statement reads:
The ATCA Rescue & Adoption Committee fulfills the Airedale Terrier Club of America, Inc. ("ATCA") obligation to protect and advance the interests of the breed by providing services to lost, abandoned, abused or unwanted purebred Airedale Terriers.
From the Akita Club of America, Inc.
Fanciers of Akitas were among the first groups to realize that shelters and humane organizations needed help. They organized to rescue Akitas that needed additional help to find new homes. The term "rescue" has now come to encompass any group that specializes in placing one breed of dog, and the dogs they help have become known as "rescue dogs."
Tha Alaskan Malamute Assistance League:
The Alaskan Malamute Assistance League is dedicated to the health and well being of all Alaskan Malamutes. Our main objectives are to rehabilitate and re-home rescued Alaskan Malamutes, assist Malamute owners, and provide education services to the public. Our ultimate goal is to ensure that every Alaskan Malamute has the chance to live a life that they deserve.
The list goes on and on and on.
What I am trying to explain is that the word "rescue" to anyone who has not been privy to our discussions on greyhound message boards, encompasses all dogs who are in need of homes, regardless of how they were treated or what circumstances got them there. It is the single most common term that both breeders and adoption groups use nationwide. The breeder's web sites even link directly to rescue groups.
People cannot possibly know that the meaning you guys have assigned to this word carries such negativity. By re-defining the word you are making it sound as if all greyhounds who need homes are abused. And by taking offense that they would insinuate such a horrendous thing about your dog, you are sending out the message that rescued greyhounds are not a good thing. After reading the above mission statements, do you really want people to believe that?
I don't have a single problem with not using the word amongst ourselves. I respect the feelings of greyhound breeders. But I really think you should take another look at what the rest of the world is saying and try to understand the language they agree on from their point of view. It is not always what you think.
Jenna
| QUOTE |
| Jenna-So if someone asks me "Is that a rescue?", I shouldn't tell the truth and say no, but say yes, hoping it leads to more conversation? It just sounds like I am damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I say yes, then I have to hear the next words out of their mouths about how terrible it is what happens to them, and I think we all know how those conversations go (they ALWAYS know more about your dogs than you do). But if I say no, then I am, in your words, "confusing" them? |
I think (in your case) it would help a lot to ask him what he means. Then you can give the correct answer without confusing him.
If he says "I mean is that a dog who was abused?" Then "no, he is a retired racing greyhound though. They aren't abused like you may think, blah, blah,blah."
If he is too closed minded, hey, at least you tried.
But if he says "I mean is that one of those racing dogs who needed a new home?" Then "yes". I wouldn't bother with trying to explain why the word is wrong if he didn't mean it that way because that in itself is more confusing than anything. You can see that from the varied answers in this thread. Everyone seems to have their own opinion.
If he still asks "isn't it terrible what they do to them?" Again, I think it would help to ask him what he means. But if you would rather not, you could say "Some of the things you hear about are myths or rumors that have circulated for years. The things that did happen 20 years ago, are not happening anymore (or rarely happen or whatever. It really depends on what things he means).
That would end the annoying question from that one person. Or if he didn't believe you, he might believe the next person who told him the same thing. If you don't tell him anything, he will just keep repeating the same things.
Jenna
| QUOTE (greytdog @ May 16 2007, 08:04 AM) |
| Jenna, prefontaine ... how long have you been involved with greys (innocent question just wondering)? I realize how little we actually know about each other and I think that leads to assumptions about the persons ideas/motives ect. Hello my name is Tara I have been involved with greyhounds for 8 months ... LOL Tara |
15 years. I got my first greyhound before my first computer!
Jenna
| QUOTE (Jenna @ May 16 2007, 09:53 PM) |
| People cannot possibly know that the meaning you guys have assigned to this word carries such negativity. By re-defining the word you are making it sound as if all greyhounds who need homes are abused. And by taking offense that they would insinuate such a horrendous thing about your dog, you are sending out the message that rescued greyhounds are not a good thing. After reading the above mission statements, do you really want people to believe that? |
Sorry Jenna, but that is just flat out wrong. I have been asked, as you have too, hundreds if not thousands of times, "Oh, look at the greyhounds, are they rescues?" THE NEXT WORDS OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS IS INVARIALBLY "ISN'T IT AWFUL HOW THEY ARE TREATED?" Jenna, name ONE other dog breed that has had an HBO special made about it? (Yes, I know there was one about puppy mills too) Name one other breed that is singled out by animal rights groups the way that the greyhound is. I don't see ANY groups called Affenpinscher Pretection League, or Affenpinshcer2K. There are no lobbying groups against how these dogs are bred, raised, and used, and no one is trying to shut down an industry of working Affenpinschers. THAT is the difference. When someone asks if my dogs are rescues, NO, they do not mean the same as if they were Akitas. Hell, how many of you guys have or have had other full blooded dogs? Were people coming up to you EVERYDAY and asking if it was a rescue?? We walk with some friends that have a great dane and a jack russell, and they have NEVER been asked if their dogs were rescues. The greyhound has a negative connotation attached to it, and you can either believe it or not. No, I don't take offense that someone would think that MY dog is a rescue. I don't get why you think I am so offended by the term, and it's use regarding my personal pets. Greyhounds are singled out and held to a different standard than all other breeds regarding adoption. Plain and simple.
As a side note, directly related, is why people feel it is necessary to see your dogs from a distance, make a bee line toward them with their hands out stretched (for the dog to sniff), and AS SOON AS they get to you say, "Are they rescues?" Am I the only one puzzled by this? It's kinda like asking someone with kids "Are they adopted?", or just walking up to a pregnant lady and rubbing her belly, or seeing a guy getting into a Lexus and asking, "Is it stolen??" I have always wondered what it is that brings people to conclusions about others, and what was it that brought them to that conclusion. Were the parents of the kids white and the kids Chinese? Well that would be a pretty simple one. Was the guy getting into the Lexus holding a 'Will work for food' sign? That one too. But what is it about walking a greyhound gives off the vibe that my (once again, the universal 'my', not mine personally) dogs are rescues? Well, I really doubt we all give off whatever vibe that would be, so it must be a common thought that all greyhounds are in dire straits, and these are 2 of the very few that made it out of the "system". Just an observation!!!
[QUOTE=prefontaine,May 17 2007, 06:33 AM]
[/QUOTE]
Sorry Jenna, but that is just flat out wrong. I have been asked, as you have too, hundreds if not thousands of times, "Oh, look at the greyhounds, are they rescues?" THE NEXT WORDS OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS IS INVARIALBLY "ISN'T IT AWFUL HOW THEY ARE TREATED?"
[/QUOTE]
I agree prefontaine, 8 times out of 10 the next thing I hear is "isn't it awful......." or "bless you, for...." I try not to create more confusion, BUT do try to get across that NOT ALL dogs are in danger and racing as a whole is NOT ALL bad. Unfortunately, there is good, bad and ugly in ALL performance sports.
I have 2 other breeds and have NEVER been asked if they were rescues.
To me part of educating the public is also educating them that there are good people in racing, that love their dogs and want to see them in good homes. I have found that MOST people are willing to listen and don't seem to walk away confused. There ARE those that no matter what you say, they are going to think what they want.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry Jenna, but that is just flat out wrong. I have been asked, as you have too, hundreds if not thousands of times, "Oh, look at the greyhounds, are they rescues?" THE NEXT WORDS OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS IS INVARIALBLY "ISN'T IT AWFUL HOW THEY ARE TREATED?"
[/QUOTE]
I agree prefontaine, 8 times out of 10 the next thing I hear is "isn't it awful......." or "bless you, for...." I try not to create more confusion, BUT do try to get across that NOT ALL dogs are in danger and racing as a whole is NOT ALL bad. Unfortunately, there is good, bad and ugly in ALL performance sports.
I have 2 other breeds and have NEVER been asked if they were rescues.
To me part of educating the public is also educating them that there are good people in racing, that love their dogs and want to see them in good homes. I have found that MOST people are willing to listen and don't seem to walk away confused. There ARE those that no matter what you say, they are going to think what they want.
That was my point as well ... there was much more to the conversation than "Is he hard to handle" when I said "no" they said "it is so great that you could save one of them". Save, Ty was healthy, happy and well adjusted ... we are blessed that he chose us.
I too have a Lab (pure bred, which is a breed we see all the time in shelters or bred in puppy mills here) but never have I been asked if he was rescued/adopted ect..
I agree with vahoundlover never has a person walked away from me confused. I usually give myself 10-15 extra minutes for walk time because people just want to know EVERYTHING including some truth about the racing industry. Do some come from horrific situation YES but do they all NO just like all dogs at the SPCA don't. I guess the real question is what constitutes rescuing ... and for everyone the answer is different.
If someone asked me if Ty was rescued and then I explained his adventure in finally finding our family they would walk away more confused by my saying he was "rescued" (which is a word that has a very negative connotation).
Tara
I too have a Lab (pure bred, which is a breed we see all the time in shelters or bred in puppy mills here) but never have I been asked if he was rescued/adopted ect..
I agree with vahoundlover never has a person walked away from me confused. I usually give myself 10-15 extra minutes for walk time because people just want to know EVERYTHING including some truth about the racing industry. Do some come from horrific situation YES but do they all NO just like all dogs at the SPCA don't. I guess the real question is what constitutes rescuing ... and for everyone the answer is different.
If someone asked me if Ty was rescued and then I explained his adventure in finally finding our family they would walk away more confused by my saying he was "rescued" (which is a word that has a very negative connotation).
Tara
I have an idea! Why don't you tell them about the greyhounds and what great pets they make?!! 
Woohoo!! I think we are all happy with each others' positions, responses, etc!!! This may be a first!!!
Seriously though, there is no right or wrong on this subject. And I think we all can learn a lot from listening to each other on topics like this.
Up next: Politics, religion, and it's effect on gay marriage.
Seriously though, there is no right or wrong on this subject. And I think we all can learn a lot from listening to each other on topics like this.
Up next: Politics, religion, and it's effect on gay marriage.
I always tell people what great pets they make
prefontaine, I'm ready for the next one!
prefontaine, I'm ready for the next one!
QUOTE (prefontaine @ May 17 2007, 06:33 AM)
| QUOTE (Jenna @ May 16 2007, 09:53 PM) |
| People cannot possibly know that the meaning you guys have assigned to this word carries such negativity. By re-defining the word you are making it sound as if all greyhounds who need homes are abused. And by taking offense that they would insinuate such a horrendous thing about your dog, you are sending out the message that rescued greyhounds are not a good thing. After reading the above mission statements, do you really want people to believe that? |
....name ONE other dog breed that has had an HBO special made about it? (Yes, I know there was one about puppy mills too) Name one other breed that is singled out by animal rights groups the way that the greyhound is. I don't see ANY groups called Affenpinscher Pretection League, or Affenpinshcer2K. There are no lobbying groups against how these dogs are bred, raised, and used, and no one is trying to shut down an industry of working Affenpinschers. THAT is the difference. When someone asks if my dogs are rescues, NO, they do not mean the same as if they were Akitas. Hell, how many of you guys have or have had other full blooded dogs? Were people coming up to you EVERYDAY and asking if it was a rescue?? We walk with some friends that have a great dane and a jack russell, and they have NEVER been asked if their dogs were rescues. The greyhound has a negative connotation attached to it, and you can either believe it or not. No, I don't take offense that someone would think that MY dog is a rescue. I don't get why you think I am so offended by the term, and it's use regarding my personal pets. Greyhounds are singled out and held to a different standard than all other breeds regarding adoption. Plain and simple.
As a side note, directly related, is why people feel it is necessary to see your dogs from a distance, make a bee line toward them with their hands out stretched (for the dog to sniff), and AS SOON AS they get to you say, "Are they rescues?" Am I the only one puzzled by this? It's kinda like asking someone with kids "Are they adopted?", or just walking up to a pregnant lady and rubbing her belly, or seeing a guy getting into a Lexus and asking, "Is it stolen??" I have always wondered what it is that brings people to conclusions about others, and what was it that brought them to that conclusion. Were the parents of the kids white and the kids Chinese? Well that would be a pretty simple one. Was the guy getting into the Lexus holding a 'Will work for food' sign? That one too. But what is it about walking a greyhound gives off the vibe that my (once again, the universal 'my', not mine personally) dogs are rescues? Well, I really doubt we all give off whatever vibe that would be, so it must be a common thought that all greyhounds are in dire straits, and these are 2 of the very few that made it out of the "system". Just an observation!!!
What a stupid question. Why don't you name another breed of dog that has been bred in the US for the last 80 years for any purpose and then killed? Don't forget that even today not all of them survive racing.
Look at the number of greyhound registered in the 80s and the number adopted. Before you tell me that was 25 years ago realize that was the decade the greyhound business earned its bad reputation and 20+ years later is still unable to shake.
| QUOTE (FFR @ May 17 2007, 09:25 PM) |
| What a stupid question. Why don't you name another breed of dog that has been bred in the US for the last 80 years for any purpose and then killed? Don't forget that even today not all of them survive racing. Look at the number of greyhound registered in the 80s and the number adopted. Before you tell me that was 25 years ago realize that was the decade the greyhound business earned its bad reputation and 20+ years later is still unable to shake. |
OK, first of all, I am done with this topic. We started this topic on May 11th, and since you joined EG on the 10th, have had plenty of time to weigh in and for some reason have chosen not to. Why is that??
Since you have chosen to do a comparison, how about giving the AKC a call and ask for numbers of retrievers bred every year, and then call the Human Society-the real one, not that lobbying commie group, the HSUS-or call the ASPCA, and get some numbers on retrievers put down each year. Then remember those are numbers only for AKC REGISTERED dogs. There are probably twice that many bred a year without papers. I can garauntee you that no matter what year you are pulling numbers, retrievers in the pound being euthanized will at least double the number of greys put down a year. Now to answer your question with another-Does it matter whether it was a greyhound being bred to race and put down at the end of it's career, or a lab being bred as a PET and then dumped at the pound certain for an early death?? Does it matter what the dog was bred FOR?? Now does it make either of them right? NO. But for you to ask more of the greyhound community than you do from the general population of dog owners and breeders, when even at it's worst the "industry" was a far cry from the atrocities bestowed upon the average retriever breed, is a TAD hypocritical. If you are going to do a breed comparison (and for some reason, AR's NEVER want to compare numbers with any other breed...), you might want to do a little research and find out that it doesn't matter WHAT the dog was bred FOR, examples of CONSIDERABLY higher euthanasia ACTUAL NUMBERS, not just rates, are commonplace.
Okay so how about religion ... I think it would be less of a bombshell than this one LOL. I am Canadian Reformed (American Reformed very similiar to Presbyterian Reformed or Orthodox Presbyterian). So yeah any takers on this topic LOL.
Tara
P.S. Numbers aren't really reliable from any group (they all have their motive) that is why Greyhound-Data (in my opinion a neutral group)is trying to get the real numbers.
Tara
P.S. Numbers aren't really reliable from any group (they all have their motive) that is why Greyhound-Data (in my opinion a neutral group)is trying to get the real numbers.
| QUOTE (greytdog @ May 18 2007, 08:27 AM) |
| Okay so how about religion ... I think it would be less of a bombshell than this one LOL. I am Canadian Reformed (American Reformed very similiar to Presbyterian Reformed or Orthodox Presbyterian). So yeah any takers on this topic LOL. Tara P.S. Numbers aren't really reliable from any group (they all have their motive) that is why Greyhound-Data (in my opinion a neutral group)is trying to get the real numbers. |
You're right, Tara. EVERY group, no matter affiliation, is going to have some bias one way or the other. We'll see what happens with the GD database.
Wow, you really think you are up to a discussion on religion?? You're a brave soul! Alright, here goes. I grew up Baptist (Southern Baptist, no less), but after getting married, questioning my beliefs, etc., my wife and I have somewhat settled into a Lutheran frome of mind. We are currently taking an introductory class at a Lutheran church that teaches the beliefs and subtleties of the Lutheran faith. I grew up thinking that pretty much all the denominations were the same, with only slight differences regarding semantics. Boy was I wrong. What I have realized however, is though all denominations have their place, that none of my beliefs aligned with the Baptist theology.
So you are a basically Presbyterian huh? Ok...I have friends that are Pres, but haven't been able to get a straight answer from them on this...what is your take on predestination? I really don't get that part of the Presbyterian church. Is your set of beliefs close enough to comment on that?
Hey guys, why don't you start the topic on religion in the religion section. Like to keep this post on the original topic.
We will. I didn't think anyone would actually bite on the religion thing!!
Tom, we ae still waiting on your input on this topic!!
Tom, we ae still waiting on your input on this topic!!
My response to anyone who asks about our greys. I say that they are retired racers, usually the person would have the wow look. If the person then goes to the aww alot of them are killed and isn't it aweful what they do to them. I respond, things are much better now and the industry is working on making it much better. I then say, there are always a few bad apples but not like the old days.
Then I say how they make great pets, most of them get along with cats and small dogs, they sleep most of the day, they have energy bursts, love walks or if you have a fenced in yard, let them run there. etc....
I always try to make the person(s) walk away with a new perspective on this issue even if they don't change their mind, at least they heard what I had to say and maybe some of what I told them would sink in.
Then I say how they make great pets, most of them get along with cats and small dogs, they sleep most of the day, they have energy bursts, love walks or if you have a fenced in yard, let them run there. etc....
I always try to make the person(s) walk away with a new perspective on this issue even if they don't change their mind, at least they heard what I had to say and maybe some of what I told them would sink in.
That is a very sensible answer, Tom.
As for why people ask the question about greys more than other dogs, well greys are the only breed where every one of them needs to be re-homed. While there may be more retrievers who end up in the pound (and I don't know what that number is) there are even more who are kept by their owners their entire lives.
Jenna
As for why people ask the question about greys more than other dogs, well greys are the only breed where every one of them needs to be re-homed. While there may be more retrievers who end up in the pound (and I don't know what that number is) there are even more who are kept by their owners their entire lives.
Jenna
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ May 18 2007, 06:18 AM) |
| OK, first of all, I am done with this topic. We started this topic on May 11th, and since you joined EG on the 10th, have had plenty of time to weigh in and for some reason have chosen not to. Why is that?? |
Because you didn't make you poor anaolgy until 6:30AM on the 17th and I replied at 9PM. Is that fast enough for you?
. Resuce - adopted - retired - whatever. When I bump into someone and they ask "is that a rescued greyhound" I tell them "no, he is a retired racer from the track but his owner made sure he found a couch when his racing days were over and I was lucky enough to get him". That goes alot farther than some debate about racing.
As for groups that target other breeds...... PETA and a few other animal rights groups spend millions of dollars a year trying to get laws covering breeding so tight that it curbs or severly limits who can do it and where. They also spend quite a bit on breed specific legislation too. So quit crying and feeling so picked on becasue there are people that don't like greyhound racing - so what? Racing isn't going anywhere. Tracks that are closing are closing for financial reasons not becasue someone is calling a retired racer a rescue for God's sake.
PETA also kidnaps hunting dogs while out hunting from legitimate hunters who love their dogs like they are their kids. So for me PETA is not an authority I will get my moral compass from on this issue. It is not about feeling "picked on" it is about trying to make a good first impression with potential owners who may never have thought of greys as an option because of the negative publicity.
Tara
Tara
Ok...let's move on to a new topic. We are beyond talking in cirlces, we have moved on to more interesting geometric shapes. And don't say it isn't because I don't have a response, because I think we all know that I will argue with a stopsign!! Alright, somebody start a new thread...
Alright, somebody start a new thread...
| QUOTE (greytdog @ May 12 2007, 12:14 PM) |
| Living in Canada where there are alot of uneducated people who know nothing about greys in general ... I agree with Chris in that words carry alot of weight. I am asked daily if Ty was rescued, saved from being put down or some form of that question. I always say "no he had a racing injury and his owner thought it best he retire and I was lucky enough to get him." The media is different here we ONLY here the bad stories and until I got Ty and started my journey into obsession I knew sooooo little (as most Canadians do). Alot Canadians think that they are all put down when they are done racing unless some kind soul steps in but that is the rare event. (Except the "oldtimers who remeber seeing them race somewhere at sometime and find him so fascinating.) They have no idea that racing is regulated by the NGA (I think they think it is like cock fighting done on the down low LOL) and there are breeders trainers, owners, track owners ect. Just the breeding science is mind boggling... I believe that until you have one or are around one regularily you will never understand or comprehend how very blessed we are to be priviledged enough to own one of these dogs. Rescue should be saved for those that are abused, neglected or saved from death. The majority of greys I think adopt a family that suits them. JMO, sorry I went on and on, Tara |
I think you are underestimating the Canadian public. I don't think they know any more or less about greyhound racing than anybody else. I also think rescue or adopted, it's a matter of semantics. Until there is 100% adoption and racing owners provide $$ for their retiring dogs' medical bills upon retirement, they are still being rescued. Remember, for the most part it isn't the racing industry or owner who pays the dogs' medical bills upon retirement, it is the adoption groups who must raise the necessary funds.
QUOTE (Canadian Hound Owner @ May 30 2007, 05:09 PM)
| QUOTE (greytdog @ May 12 2007, 12:14 PM) |
| Living in Canada where there are alot of uneducated people who know nothing about greys in general ... I agree with Chris in that words carry alot of weight. I am asked daily if Ty was rescued, saved from being put down or some form of that question. I always say "no he had a racing injury and his owner thought it best he retire and I was lucky enough to get him." The media is different here we ONLY here the bad stories and until I got Ty and started my journey into obsession I knew sooooo little (as most Canadians do). Alot Canadians think that they are all put down when they are done racing unless some kind soul steps in but that is the rare event. (Except the "oldtimers who remeber seeing them race somewhere at sometime and find him so fascinating.) They have no idea that racing is regulated by the NGA (I think they think it is like cock fighting done on the down low LOL) and there are breeders trainers, owners, track owners ect. Just the breeding science is mind boggling... I believe that until you have one or are around one regularily you will never understand or comprehend how very blessed we are to be priviledged enough to own one of these dogs. Rescue should be saved for those that are abused, neglected or saved from death. The majority of greys I think adopt a family that suits them. JMO, sorry I went on and on, Tara |
I think you are underestimating the Canadian public. I don't think they know any more or less about greyhound racing than anybody else. I also think rescue or adopted, it's a matter of semantics. Until there is 100% adoption and racing owners provide $$ for their retiring dogs' medical bills upon retirement, they are still being rescued. Remember, for the most part it isn't the racing industry or owner who pays the dogs' medical bills upon retirement, it is the adoption groups who must raise the necessary funds.
Thanks for your post. Why don't you register and be a part of board. Like to hear more from you.
| QUOTE (Canadian Hound Owner @ May 30 2007, 04:09 PM) |
| I think you are underestimating the Canadian public. I don't think they know any more or less about greyhound racing than anybody else. I also think rescue or adopted, it's a matter of semantics. Until there is 100% adoption and racing owners provide $$ for their retiring dogs' medical bills upon retirement, they are still being rescued. Remember, for the most part it isn't the racing industry or owner who pays the dogs' medical bills upon retirement, it is the adoption groups who must raise the necessary funds. |
So....you're pretty sure that the general Canadian population knows just as much about greyhound racing as, say, someone living in Florida? I don't think Tara is underestimating anyone, simply stating a fact. If something doesn't exist anywhere in an entire country, the constituency is *probably* a little less likely to know much more than their media outlets present.
And BTW, when our group started, we footed the bill for the dogs for about a year or so. Over time, our director has been able to work deals with owners, and kennels to pay for the haul AND make a donation for every dog we receive. I think there are more groups out there operating in this manner than you would think.
I can only comment on all the people who ask me daily about my "poor" boy or 'Is that one of those racing dogs that was going to be destroyed".
However, I believe on the whole Canadians are uneducated about the racing industry most still think dog racing is illegal in Canada. It is not something most Canadians think affect them ... pardon the pun ... but many Canadians don't think they have a dog in the fight so why bother getting involved. The world take Canadians complacency as politeness ... I think it is something else.
Should owners be responsible for helping rehome ... I think so ... but I also think there are alot who in some way do help (read about FTH).
Tara
However, I believe on the whole Canadians are uneducated about the racing industry most still think dog racing is illegal in Canada. It is not something most Canadians think affect them ... pardon the pun ... but many Canadians don't think they have a dog in the fight so why bother getting involved. The world take Canadians complacency as politeness ... I think it is something else.
Should owners be responsible for helping rehome ... I think so ... but I also think there are alot who in some way do help (read about FTH).
Tara
| QUOTE (greytdog @ May 31 2007, 09:19 AM) |
| I can only comment on all the people who ask me daily about my "poor" boy or 'Is that one of those racing dogs that was going to be destroyed". However, I believe on the whole Canadians are uneducated about the racing industry most still think dog racing is illegal in Canada. It is not something most Canadians think affect them ... pardon the pun ... but many Canadians don't think they have a dog in the fight so why bother getting involved. The world take Canadians complacency as politeness ... I think it is something else. Should owners be responsible for helping rehome ... I think so ... but I also think there are alot who in some way do help (read about FTH). Tara |
i don't think most canadians give racing much thought, and that shouldn't come as a surprise. additionally, i don't think most people care about the rescue vs. adopted argument. that is a splitting hairs argument used by pro vs. con. in the end, it's all semantics and those of us who bother to frequent pet greyhound boards ultimately want good homes for retired hounds. having said that, i think it's time that ALL racing owners and the NGA take responsibility for the dogs they breed and not really on adoption groups, who have traditionally made it all too easy for the racing industry to get away with murder by cleaning up after it.
QUOTE (Canadian Hound Owner @ May 31 2007, 12:47 PM)
| QUOTE (greytdog @ May 31 2007, 09:19 AM) |
| I can only comment on all the people who ask me daily about my "poor" boy or 'Is that one of those racing dogs that was going to be destroyed". However, I believe on the whole Canadians are uneducated about the racing industry most still think dog racing is illegal in Canada. It is not something most Canadians think affect them ... pardon the pun ... but many Canadians don't think they have a dog in the fight so why bother getting involved. The world take Canadians complacency as politeness ... I think it is something else. Should owners be responsible for helping rehome ... I think so ... but I also think there are alot who in some way do help (read about FTH). Tara |
i don't think most canadians give racing much thought, and that shouldn't come as a surprise. additionally, i don't think most people care about the rescue vs. adopted argument. that is a splitting hairs argument used by pro vs. con. in the end, it's all semantics and those of us who bother to frequent pet greyhound boards ultimately want good homes for retired hounds. having said that, i think it's time that ALL racing owners and the NGA take responsibility for the dogs they breed and not really on adoption groups, who have traditionally made it all too easy for the racing industry to get away with murder by cleaning up after it.
Please register to participate. This is the second time I ask you.
Thanks
D2P
Why don't you register. You made some great points in your posts. Come on aboard, don't be shy.
| QUOTE (Canadian Hound Owner @ May 31 2007, 11:47 AM) |
| i don't think most canadians give racing much thought, and that shouldn't come as a surprise. additionally, i don't think most people care about the rescue vs. adopted argument. that is a splitting hairs argument used by pro vs. con. in the end, it's all semantics and those of us who bother to frequent pet greyhound boards ultimately want good homes for retired hounds. having said that, i think it's time that ALL racing owners and the NGA take responsibility for the dogs they breed and not really on adoption groups, who have traditionally made it all too easy for the racing industry to get away with murder by cleaning up after it. |
If nobody cares about the rescue vs. adopted debate, why are YOU even commenting on it, and why has it drawn 4 pages worth of responses??
Oh, and by the way, here is the definition of MURDER, as documented on Wikipedia:
Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with "malice aforethought."
Murder
What you are referring to is Animal Euthanasia.
Just thought you would want to have that information so that you can apply proper terms to their respective actions.
Prefontaine. I'd be willing to bet you've been around the greyhound business for 1 or 2 years TOPS and have no idea what the real history of greyhound racing and the evolution of adoption beyond what has been told to you by a folks in the racing business.
What does the length of time he has been involved have to do with anything? I have only really been around greys for 10 months but it has consumed my life literally. I have read/researched so much I have 3 binders full of articles (from BOTH sides) highlighted, cross referenced and foot noted. I try to help anyway I can with adoption (through greyhound data), I am planning a meet and greet for the group I got my boy from, volunteering at grey events when I can. Not all of us follow blindly what we are spoon fed by EITHER side of this debate some of us do the research, ask the questions and try to learn from those who have been in the greyhound arena for a while. Is there some magic length of time you have to be involved before you can have an opinion?
Don't misunderstand I think animal euthanasia is not a good form of animal control for any breed but I also know that my opinion is not the only one and that not everyone will agree with me. But as I was always told by my grandmother "you will ALWAYS catch more bees with honey than vinegar" so maligning someone's postion or insulting there knowledge/commitment will get you no where other than distancing those who may be able to see your side.
JMHO,
Tara
Don't misunderstand I think animal euthanasia is not a good form of animal control for any breed but I also know that my opinion is not the only one and that not everyone will agree with me. But as I was always told by my grandmother "you will ALWAYS catch more bees with honey than vinegar" so maligning someone's postion or insulting there knowledge/commitment will get you no where other than distancing those who may be able to see your side.
JMHO,
Tara
| QUOTE (FFR @ Jun 4 2007, 12:21 AM) |
| Prefontaine. I'd be willing to bet you've been around the greyhound business for 1 or 2 years TOPS and have no idea what the real history of greyhound racing and the evolution of adoption beyond what has been told to you by a folks in the racing business. |
Wow, is that all you can come up with?? I bet you're known as The Wordsmith where you come from. And just for your info, as I have said before, I have been around greys for about 6 years and in adoption for around 4. What you are saying with your post (which is number SIX for you, by the way) is that you have more right to an opinion than someone else. But once again, I know nothing, and you "veteran's" know everything. I guess from now on I will just defer all questions to you guys that know SO VERY MUCH about greyhounds and greyhound history. Thanks for putting me in my place.
| QUOTE (FFR @ Jun 4 2007, 12:21 AM) |
| Prefontaine. I'd be willing to bet you've been around the greyhound business for 1 or 2 years TOPS and have no idea what the real history of greyhound racing and the evolution of adoption beyond what has been told to you by a folks in the racing business. |
I don't think that time in the business matters to have an opinion on it. You can talk to and read up on what has been happening to this business in the past few years. I've seen a lot of changes since I started racing in 1993, but does that make me any more knowledgable than Prefontaine? I've had more experiences than him, but he could have the same knowledge just by talking to people. By the way, how long have you been in the business?
i'm going back to the VERY first post that started this thread..
when someone says "Did you rescue him" i say "he's an adopted retired racer" i DO NOT want people to think Al is a rescue.. then they don't know who he really is and then they feel pity for my dog and Al is not a charity case.. he was a very healthy and happy dog when i adopted him and when the adoption group got him...
when i think rescue i think flea and tick covered dog starving to death, or just a neglected dog that needs to get out of that situation quick before something bad is going to happen... Al ate everyday at the track, he ran (which is what he LOVES to do) and then he slept and greyhounds love to sleep!! so where does the word rescue fit into his situation?
if the person that is asking the question is willing to listen then i'll talk some more, but if that's all they had to say then at least they don't consider the word rescue with my dog...
when someone says "Did you rescue him" i say "he's an adopted retired racer" i DO NOT want people to think Al is a rescue.. then they don't know who he really is and then they feel pity for my dog and Al is not a charity case.. he was a very healthy and happy dog when i adopted him and when the adoption group got him...
when i think rescue i think flea and tick covered dog starving to death, or just a neglected dog that needs to get out of that situation quick before something bad is going to happen... Al ate everyday at the track, he ran (which is what he LOVES to do) and then he slept and greyhounds love to sleep!! so where does the word rescue fit into his situation?
if the person that is asking the question is willing to listen then i'll talk some more, but if that's all they had to say then at least they don't consider the word rescue with my dog...
Yeah, who needs to promote greyhound adoption anyway?
Jenna
Jenna
| QUOTE (Jenna @ Jun 5 2007, 05:38 PM) |
| Yeah, who needs to promote greyhound adoption anyway? Jenna |
huh
I invited folks to my kennel all the time to see what it is like. Once they leave, they get a different perspective on what goes on.
I am not talking about your kennel greydaddy. It's the whole issue of rescue/adopted/retired racer/whatever that Redstripe is bringing back up again. Every time I hear about adopters someone getting their noses out of joint just because some innocent bystander asked about their dog and doesn't know the ins and outs of this overblown argument on greyhound nomenclature, I just see another opportunity for those dogs who really DO need to be rescued .... blown.
What I really want to know is how the heck are people supposed to know if your dog is a rescue or not, UNLESS THEY ASK?!!
Aside from that, there is nothing wrong with a rescued racer. They are no different than any other greyhound. They are just as deserving of homes whether their previous owner pays for it or public charity foots the bill.
Jenna
What I really want to know is how the heck are people supposed to know if your dog is a rescue or not, UNLESS THEY ASK?!!
Aside from that, there is nothing wrong with a rescued racer. They are no different than any other greyhound. They are just as deserving of homes whether their previous owner pays for it or public charity foots the bill.
Jenna
QUOTE (prefontaine @ May 31 2007, 11:22 PM)
| QUOTE (Canadian Hound Owner @ May 31 2007, 11:47 AM) |
| i don't think most canadians give racing much thought, and that shouldn't come as a surprise. additionally, i don't think most people care about the rescue vs. adopted argument. that is a splitting hairs argument used by pro vs. con. in the end, it's all semantics and those of us who bother to frequent pet greyhound boards ultimately want good homes for retired hounds. having said that, i think it's time that ALL racing owners and the NGA take responsibility for the dogs they breed and not really on adoption groups, who have traditionally made it all too easy for the racing industry to get away with murder by cleaning up after it. |
If nobody cares about the rescue vs. adopted debate, why are YOU even commenting on it, and why has it drawn 4 pages worth of responses??
Oh, and by the way, here is the definition of MURDER, as documented on Wikipedia:
Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with "malice aforethought."
Murder
What you are referring to is Animal Euthanasia.
Just thought you would want to have that information so that you can apply proper terms to their respective actions.
I find it interesting that you took my use of "getting away with murder" literally, even though I didn't mean it literally. I think you just shot yourself in the foot. By the way, I don't think it's generally acceptable to use Wiki as your source, as anybody, even you, can write the definition.
QUOTE (Canadian Hound Owner @ Jun 7 2007, 07:07 PM)
| QUOTE (prefontaine @ May 31 2007, 11:22 PM) | ||
If nobody cares about the rescue vs. adopted debate, why are YOU even commenting on it, and why has it drawn 4 pages worth of responses?? Oh, and by the way, here is the definition of MURDER, as documented on Wikipedia: Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with "malice aforethought." Murder What you are referring to is Animal Euthanasia. Just thought you would want to have that information so that you can apply proper terms to their respective actions. |
I find it interesting that you took my use of "getting away with murder" literally, even though I didn't mean it literally. I think you just shot yourself in the foot. By the way, I don't think it's generally acceptable to use Wiki as your source, as anybody, even you, can write the definition.
Ahhh, so I shot myself in the foot, huh? Next time I will give you a SARCASM warning before I make a post. I guess the Wikipedia reference that YOU took literally should be overlooked too.
Caution-Sarcasm ahead:
And, oooh, even I can write a Wiki entry!! I'm so excited!!
Sarcasm alert lifted
So if you don't feel that you can use Wikipedia as a reliable source, ALTHOUGH it is viewed and edited by a consensus of users, then what do YOU prefer to reference?
Animal Rescue
From Wikipedia
This article is about the TV show, and about animal rescue in general. For the article regarding animal welfare, see Animal welfare.
Animal Rescue is a TV show hosted and produced by Alex Paen. The show is about people trying to save animals from danger. Animal control officers try to assist animals in unsafe environments and respond other animal related emergencies. It is a two-time emmy nominated show.
Animal Rescue also refers to animal control shelters, humane societies, private rescue groups and individuals that help unwanted animals find new homes. Many animals are bought from breeders, or received as gifts, and then abandoned to these groups or individuals, who help place the animals so that they do not need the be euthanized. Because of the enormous pet overpopulation problem, more and more of these groups are required to or voluntarily spay and neuter the pets before they go home to their new families.
Just thought you would want to have that information so that you can apply proper terms to their respective actions.
Jenna
From Wikipedia
This article is about the TV show, and about animal rescue in general. For the article regarding animal welfare, see Animal welfare.
Animal Rescue is a TV show hosted and produced by Alex Paen. The show is about people trying to save animals from danger. Animal control officers try to assist animals in unsafe environments and respond other animal related emergencies. It is a two-time emmy nominated show.
Animal Rescue also refers to animal control shelters, humane societies, private rescue groups and individuals that help unwanted animals find new homes. Many animals are bought from breeders, or received as gifts, and then abandoned to these groups or individuals, who help place the animals so that they do not need the be euthanized. Because of the enormous pet overpopulation problem, more and more of these groups are required to or voluntarily spay and neuter the pets before they go home to their new families.
Just thought you would want to have that information so that you can apply proper terms to their respective actions.
Jenna
Hehehe...I saw that one on Wiki yesterday, and wondered if you would post it or not!
But wasn't it decided that Wiki isn't a good source of info?
But wasn't it decided that Wiki isn't a good source of info?
(sorry, I couldn't help it)I don't normally use Wikipedia but what do I know?
QUOTE (prefontaine @ Jun 4 2007, 12:03 PM)
| QUOTE (FFR @ Jun 4 2007, 12:21 AM) |
| Prefontaine. I'd be willing to bet you've been around the greyhound business for 1 or 2 years TOPS and have no idea what the real history of greyhound racing and the evolution of adoption beyond what has been told to you by a folks in the racing business. |
Wow, is that all you can come up with?? I bet you're known as The Wordsmith where you come from. And just for your info, as I have said before, I have been around greys for about 6 years and in adoption for around 4. What you are saying with your post (which is number SIX for you, by the way) is that you have more right to an opinion than someone else. But once again, I know nothing, and you "veteran's" know everything. I guess from now on I will just defer all questions to you guys that know SO VERY MUCH about greyhounds and greyhound history. Thanks for putting me in my place.
What is a Wordsmith?
You've been around greys for 6 years - what exactly does that mean? Your neighbors had one? You adopted your first one? And "in adoption for 4", which group have you been with since 2003?
You strike me as someone that visited a track last year and met some kennel people and anyone with an opinion that differs with yours is an idiot. You put down non-greyhound people that ask you if your greyhound is a rescue when I'd be willing to bet that is EXACTLY what you thought not long ago when you saw one on the street.
If length of time at something doesn't count then why does it matter if this is my 6th post or 600th? You went after me for being late to a thread a few weeks ago too, saying that if I had joined the debate earlier my opinion would count for more. well I've been around th track for probably as many years as your've been on Earth and have seen a few things. Some changes and some things that have not changed I'll add. does that make me more knowlegeable? Not neccesarily but it certainly gives me perspective and an understanding you don't seem to have or a willingness to comprehend.
You sound like someone that loves greyhounds, althouhg I'm not sure what your position is on several things like euthanasia at the end of their career. Back in the day that was more common but is still used today on healthy dogs - what do you think of that?
| QUOTE |
| You've been around greys for 6 years - what exactly does that mean? Your neighbors had one? You adopted your first one? And "in adoption for 4", which group have you been with since 2003? |
I have answered this question multiple times, on the new board and the old one. I don't have to defend myself to anyone. Believe me or don't-I don't really care one way or another.
QUOTE
You strike me as someone that visited a track last year and met some kennel people and anyone with an opinion that differs with yours is an idiot. You put down non-greyhound people that ask you if your greyhound is a rescue when I'd be willing to bet that is EXACTLY what you thought not long ago when you saw one on the street.
I came to greyhound adoption ffrom the racing side, as a track visitor and gambler. I NEVER thought greyhounds were rescues. You may have thought that when you first learned about greyhounds, but unlike you I don't believe every news article and HBO special that I see. You probably think we are in Iraq so "Bush and his cronies" can get cheap oil too, huh? I haven't PUT DOWN non-greyhound owners. I haven't put down anyone except folks like you that want to KEEP greyhounds a sympathy case.
Oh, yeah, those are the same thing. FFR, you WERE A MEMBER of the board when this discussion STARTED. You could have jumped in any time, and chose not to.
So you say that you have "been around a track" for longer than I've been on earth. What the heck does that mean? In what capacity? Visit once a year on vacation? Work as kennel help? Were you a bettor? Or were you just someone that secretly loved going to the track, but publicly showed your distaste for the industry? You expect answers from me...how about a few from you.
If you have read any of my posts on the new or old board, you know exactly how I feel about these topics.
I came to greyhound adoption ffrom the racing side, as a track visitor and gambler. I NEVER thought greyhounds were rescues. You may have thought that when you first learned about greyhounds, but unlike you I don't believe every news article and HBO special that I see. You probably think we are in Iraq so "Bush and his cronies" can get cheap oil too, huh? I haven't PUT DOWN non-greyhound owners. I haven't put down anyone except folks like you that want to KEEP greyhounds a sympathy case.
| QUOTE |
| If length of time at something doesn't count then why does it matter if this is my 6th post or 600th? You went after me for being late to a thread a few weeks ago too, saying that if I had joined the debate earlier my opinion would count for more. well I've been around th track for probably as many years as your've been on Earth and have seen a few things. Some changes and some things that have not changed I'll add. does that make me more knowlegeable? Not neccesarily but it certainly gives me perspective and an understanding you don't seem to have or a willingness to comprehend. |
Oh, yeah, those are the same thing. FFR, you WERE A MEMBER of the board when this discussion STARTED. You could have jumped in any time, and chose not to.
So you say that you have "been around a track" for longer than I've been on earth. What the heck does that mean? In what capacity? Visit once a year on vacation? Work as kennel help? Were you a bettor? Or were you just someone that secretly loved going to the track, but publicly showed your distaste for the industry? You expect answers from me...how about a few from you.
| QUOTE |
| You sound like someone that loves greyhounds, althouhg I'm not sure what your position is on several things like euthanasia at the end of their career. Back in the day that was more common but is still used today on healthy dogs - what do you think of that? |
If you have read any of my posts on the new or old board, you know exactly how I feel about these topics.
I suspected you knew very little and you have confirmed it for me. I also suspect you are exaggerating your involvement with adoption and your unwillingness to back up your statements with substance confims my hunch. If this board has an ignore feature you will be on it.
Hmmm ... touched a nerve maybe. I haven't been to a track, my only involvement has been on the adoption end and I have no bias one way or the other does that make my opinion unworthy? Well smack me silly and tape my mouth ... I will bow to your Superiority on the topic. LOL sorry I am just being a bit of a smarty-pants.
All I have to say is .
All I have to say is
.
Woohoo!! I am getting put on someone's Ignore list!! And I will echo Tara's bow to you of all-greyhound-knowledge. What a worthy thing to brag about.
| QUOTE (FFR @ Jun 10 2007, 12:15 PM) |
| I suspected you knew very little and you have confirmed it for me. I also suspect you are exaggerating your involvement with adoption and your unwillingness to back up your statements with substance confims my hunch. |
What capacity have you "been around the track" and how many years ago was that?
I started out as a teller in 1992, then a dog owner, then kennel helper, trainer and kennel owner. Then I went to work for the track in the adoption kennel as a helper and then was promoted to Adoption Dirctor. So I have seen just about all aspects of the racing community.
dvsgryhnd, you are someone that obviously knows ALOT about the business. Your opinion will be appreciated by me and if I ask any stupid questions please take pity on me LOL.
Tara
Tara
| QUOTE (Guest @ Jun 7 2007, 12:36 AM) |
| I am not talking about your kennel greydaddy. It's the whole issue of rescue/adopted/retired racer/whatever that Redstripe is bringing back up again. Every time I hear about adopters someone getting their noses out of joint just because some innocent bystander asked about their dog and doesn't know the ins and outs of this overblown argument on greyhound nomenclature, I just see another opportunity for those dogs who really DO need to be rescued .... blown. What I really want to know is how the heck are people supposed to know if your dog is a rescue or not, UNLESS THEY ASK?!! Aside from that, there is nothing wrong with a rescued racer. They are no different than any other greyhound. They are just as deserving of homes whether their previous owner pays for it or public charity foots the bill. Jenna |
First of I don’t know where I “got my nose out of joint” because someone asked me if Al was a rescue… what I hate is when someone has ADOPTED retired racers and they call them rescues
The reason for this is because when the “average Joe” thinks of a greyhound being a rescue they DON’T know about the HUNDREDS of adoption groups out there, they think that to get a grey you have to wait for some huge track rescue or something, many people still think to get a grey that you have to go to some “underground greyhound railroad”
i can't even begin to imagine how some trainers and owners feel about people who have adopted their greys and call them rescues.. after all the money and time they put into those dogs to keep them healthy and happy
dvsgryhnd, glad to have you on EG. Someone who really nows alot of the industry and can help us who have questions about what is going on.
QUOTE (Redstripe @ Jun 12 2007, 05:42 AM)
| QUOTE (Guest @ Jun 7 2007, 12:36 AM) |
| I am not talking about your kennel greydaddy. It's the whole issue of rescue/adopted/retired racer/whatever that Redstripe is bringing back up again. Every time I hear about adopters someone getting their noses out of joint just because some innocent bystander asked about their dog and doesn't know the ins and outs of this overblown argument on greyhound nomenclature, I just see another opportunity for those dogs who really DO need to be rescued .... blown. What I really want to know is how the heck are people supposed to know if your dog is a rescue or not, UNLESS THEY ASK?!! Aside from that, there is nothing wrong with a rescued racer. They are no different than any other greyhound. They are just as deserving of homes whether their previous owner pays for it or public charity foots the bill. Jenna |
First of I don’t know where I “got my nose out of joint” because someone asked me if Al was a rescue… what I hate is when someone has ADOPTED retired racers and they call them rescues
The reason for this is because when the “average Joe” thinks of a greyhound being a rescue they DON’T know about the HUNDREDS of adoption groups out there, they think that to get a grey you have to wait for some huge track rescue or something, many people still think to get a grey that you have to go to some “underground greyhound railroad”
i can't even begin to imagine how some trainers and owners feel about people who have adopted their greys and call them rescues.. after all the money and time they put into those dogs to keep them healthy and happy
Most adopters do not know the original owners of their dogs. Some don't even have a way to find them. It really depends on where you got your dog, whether anyone cared about them or not. I don't get annoyed with adopters who say their dogs are not rescues but if they really want to get their point across to those who don't understand, then they need to explain what safeguards are in place in the absence of volunteer adoption groups.
The people (the "average Joes") who ask about your dogs are the ones who fund these adoption groups. They are the future volunteers and their homes are where we hope the dogs will someday stay. Past history has shown them what happens to the dogs who don't make it to adoption groups and that is what motivates many of them to donate, foster, volunteer or help in some other way. If they express interest in greyhounds and use the term "rescue", do you really think it's a good idea to give them the impression that the need no longer exists? That they are somehow jaded in thinking that huge track closures are not a thing of the past? Adoption groups don't just grow on trees nor do they perpetually exist without continued help from people everywhere, in and out of the racing industry. There still aren't enough of them to help all the dogs and that is the bottom line.
By the way, "greyhound underground railroad" is what we more commonly refer to as a GUR. It's a way of transporting greys long distances in order to get them into homes and it happens ALL the time.
Jenna
QUOTE (Jenna @ Jun 12 2007, 05:22 PM)
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